Let's talk bearings

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badboy
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Let's talk bearings

Post by badboy » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:56 pm

My Savage has been neglected in the Bearing department. My Savage is about five years old and I am using the original wheelbearings with it.  I pulled them out the other day  to check them and they still seem pretty smooth. Obviously given the length of time they need to be replaced. They are metal sealed on both sides.

I wanted to get some feedback on what types of bearings some of you are using.  Do some of you prefer ceramic, metal sealed, or rubber sealed and why ?  To me the metal sealed ones have lasted a long time so I'm leaning towards replacing them with the same type.

Obviously I have replaced my clutch bell bearings numerous times and I am considering replacing them with ceramic because I'm under the impression that they last longer. However I don't know if that's true or not.
BADBOY- Savage X: Picco .28,

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SV250
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Post by SV250 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:18 pm

Ceramics do last longer but are expensive. Usually by the time your clutch bearings crap out the clutch needs replacing too. As far as wheels, the ceramics are far too expensive for that. I prefer rubber sealed bearings. They keep the dirt out better than metal sealed.
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Post by Squid » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:40 pm

I prefer rubber sealed on the wheels. But I do prefer metal shielded on the clutch, I have had issues with the rubber seal on the clutch. It was probably my fault, but I still don't like rubber sealed on the clutch. I have never personally used ceramics, but I generally race, and if the clutch comes out the bearings get changed just because. My thinking with that is if the bearing fails because I didn't change it when I had the clutch apart, I threw away a race over a $2.00 bearing.

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Post by SiNiST3R » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:00 am

Yeah those rubber seals can get over heated in the clutch.

Bearings are on my shopping list.


It would be nice to get some options listed. I think Acer has a set for the Savage that's expensive, I hear people think they are poor quality but I've still not met anybody with a set just opinions based on I don't know what...

Some eBay options too, be real nice to get proper feedback or review from somebody who has actually used the set they are talking about.

Wouldn't it be nice to have legit abec 3 to 7 bearing kits.
[url=http://s27.photobucket.com/user/Rac3rXGT4/media/Mobile%20Uploads/signature%20new%20shrunk.jpg.html][img]http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c176/Rac3rXGT4/Mobile%20Uploads/signature%20new%20shrunk.jpg[/img][/url]

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Post by Squid » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:28 am

I am spoiled when it comes to bearings. My LHS stocks tons of them, no labels on the boxes so I can't help out telling you a brand name. They sell them $20 for a tube of 10. A bit more per bearing than I have seen on the net, but no shipping hassles and they are there when I run out to immediately get more.

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Post by SiNiST3R » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:03 pm

My Local shop has bearings I don't like and over charge for them. Welcome to Montreal worst town to R/C in, its sad. 3 bucks a bearing, so 6 bones to fix the clutch and they are junk the kind with one metal side and the other is a weave of fibers or some junk. Always burns off, and they don't last at all.

I walk in the 1 of 2 local shops and the guy who own and runs the place hates RC. No interest in them at all and always crying about how poor the business is, in my head I'm thinking "yeah, you don't stock anything good, your over priced on everything, and your attitude SUCKS. Lmfao, I go there for fuel, fuel tube and glow plugs, all over priced but they are need it now stuff lolol I get envious when I see how nice the LHS are in some places, some have a track. There is not a single RC track in Montreal, there was one a hour drive out the city on the side of the drag strip but I never seen a RC on it. I'm sure if a shop openned up with even a small track it would do well.

They have an acer Savage bearing set and are asking 125$ for it, I think ceramic but man that's pricey.
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Post by SV250 » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:22 pm

I have the boca orange seal kit on one of my savages. Abec 7 set. I got them at cost a 5 years ago when the owner was really pushing them on  *another site*. I think that kit goes for $150 now.

They still roll like new, but not any better than the fast eddy sets in my other trucks. Yes they last a long time, but you can buy 10 sets of reg bearings for that.

I also bought a set of ebay abc 7s for my jato about the same time. Those didnt last any longer than stock bearings or perform any better.

I think ceramics are highly over rated. I think my bocas have lasted so long is because of the seals they use. They reccomend cleaning and regreasing with their grease (if it is grease) every so often. I pulled one seal last year and the bearings were mint inside. The seal is a tight fit and not as flimsy as stockers.
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Post by badboy » Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:53 pm

I think I am going to look at the metal fast eddies again. Just being honest I don't think I would do the maintenance on bearings. With four boys and three of them playing football my time for RCs is somewhat limited. I do appreciate all this feedback, definitely helpful.

SV250 when you were describing the Boca bearing set that is like new after five years does that include the clutch bearings?

SiNiSt3R I feel you on the track situation. I have to drive almost two hours one way when we race. There is a closer track about thirty minutes away but they are electric only.
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Post by SiNiST3R » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:24 pm

SV250 great info, I'll be looking into Fast Eddie too lol coming to the end of my build it seems only right to hook up the bearings since everything else is Trick.
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Post by SV250 » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:22 am

Badboy the kit was just wheel and diff bearings.
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Post by badboy » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:50 am

That makes sense. Clutch bearings lasting that long would be to good to be true.
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:57 pm

I used the cheap $1 a bearing clutch bearings by Protek from Amain. They are metal shielded and I replace them about every 1/4- 1/2 gallon sometimes sooner. Never had one go bad.
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Post by badboy » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:34 pm

LL I am glad you said that. I was on amain today and was wondering how those bearings performed.
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:37 pm

Anytime I take the motor out or swap clutch bells I replace the bearings. For $10 you cant go wrong and its just cheap insurance. Letting them go bad can jack up your crank and then your CB will wobble never making a good mesh.

Like I said there good bearings for the price.
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Post by I_Like_Nitro » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:10 pm

[quote="SiNiST3R";p="887479"]Yeah those rubber seals can get over heated in the clutch.

[/quote]

Sorry...this is not true. Metal shields are smoother but will pop faster. Golden rule is rubber-shield is more durable but not as smooth. Metal is less durable, but smoother than rubber. Ceramic is a waste of money for off-road vehicles. Any bearing manufacturer on here will validate this.

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Post by I_Like_Nitro » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:15 pm

[quote="LLkoolskillet";p="887498"] Letting them go bad can jack up your crank and then your CB will wobble never making a good mesh.
[/quote]
? How will bad clutch bearings affect the crank shaft? Unless you are referring to the engine bearings, which of course are what holds the crank in place, which is what in turn holds EVERYTHING in place. But clutch bell bearings don't affect the crank shaft at all. At least I've yet to see that, nor can envision a scenario how it could happen.

The key takeaway here, IMO, is that if you pop your clutch bearing...you HAVE to replace your clutch bell. Simple test...after running, take engine off immediately, wipe inside bell with finger. If you get any black...replace bell..it is ruined and you will never, ever, ever tune your engine with that bell. Real stuff, guys.

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Post by LLkoolskillet » Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:17 pm

The wobbling will put stress on both CB and crank shaft and because its spinning it remains smooth. These are extreme scenarios tho, most bearings will fall apart locking the CB and Spur together before it gets that bad. For the beginner that doesnt know that his bearing(s) fell apart, what do they do? They try to start the motor which in tern is locked to the spur moving the truck forward. The bell is all kinds of not straight just stressing on the shaft lol. On some of my older motors ive noticed bearing play on the shaft and after a while you notice corrosion start to form exactly under the bearings. Now I replace them very frequently and have zero issues.
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Post by Squid » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:56 am

[quote="I_Like_Nitro";p="887635"]

The key takeaway here, IMO, is that if you pop your clutch bearing...you HAVE to replace your clutch bell. Simple test...after running, take engine off immediately, wipe inside bell with finger. If you get any black...replace bell..it is ruined and you will never, ever, ever tune your engine with that bell. Real stuff, guys.[/quote]

I get black every time I take the CB off, even if I have only run a couple tanks. A little green scotchbrite and some brake clean and it's all back to nice clean metal. Not saying you are wrong, but a little more on the theory please. I am curious as to why the bell needs to be changed.

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Post by badboy » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:11 am

I am running a vented clutch bell that's about four years old and I would estimate I have had at least two sets of bearings go out in that clutch bell.
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Post by I_Like_Nitro » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:10 am

[quote="Squid";p="887645"][quote="I_Like_Nitro";p="887635"]

The key takeaway here, IMO, is that if you pop your clutch bearing...you HAVE to replace your clutch bell. Simple test...after running, take engine off immediately, wipe inside bell with finger. If you get any black...replace bell..it is ruined and you will never, ever, ever tune your engine with that bell. Real stuff, guys.[/quote]

I get black every time I take the CB off, even if I have only run a couple tanks. A little green scotchbrite and some brake clean and it's all back to nice clean metal. Not saying you are wrong, but a little more on the theory please. I am curious as to why the bell needs to be changed.[/quote]

Understood. Appreciate the chance to discuss....lot of you know I am long-winded, so will respond with my 'theory' , which I agree should be elaborated on shortly. Just know for now that the following realizations are present:
1. Any clutch will pretty much move any vehicle. It's a matter of if you can tune that clutch for your specific traction and horsepower.
2. I too, often, very often get the dredded grease finger. But not always. And when I do get it, 100% of the time I've popped a seal on the clutch bearing. Often there are no markings on the seal to show this it's deceiving (the Government!). ;-)
3. I can actually hear it now (the tone of the engine)...so it's basically learning what to listen for. It happens 20 times you start to pick up on it,.
4. I truly believe 50% of many's tuning issues would go away if they set their clutch up correctly. Or said differently,. they will never tune the engine if the clutch is not tuned. It's a state.
5. Often the grease cannot be wiped off by hand. However, when it heats up to the 500-600 degree range (which even vented will get too), well of course it melts. It's a catch 22.
6. I've yet to find out how to completely clean the clutch bell once this has happened, and I've tried everything I can think of.

More on this soon, but it's important IMO and appreciate the time to explain what I've experienced at least. Stay tuned.... I think it is a flaw with the Savage design, there is so little room for error....many folks don't even realize the problem they have with it.

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