50 mph.... how to get there

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nitronly
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Re: 50 mph.... how to get there

Post by nitronly » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:32 pm

Ouch. I'm still waiting on my prc parts unfortunately, so the picco is still just sitting there. I'm getting worried as I was told they would be ready in august and have sent 3 emails this week with no reply. I've been waiting on almost $400 of cf since february :roll:. I've been thinking of dropping my picco into my current truck to see what it can do but I don't want to retune it for the gravity feed I get with the mugen mid tank   (was a nightmare to get the lrp dialed in when I did the tank mod). I also don't want to "exhaust" the engine in my 13+lb truck when i'm building a (hopefully) max 9.5lb truck for the engine.
I only got one radar run in today (only 46 mph) and then the truck started revving really high and stalling out. Turned out to be the clutch. It only lasted about 5 tanks. All 3 shoes were stuck open. You can see in the first picture the pins on the flywheel that hold the shoes turned blue from the heat. I havent taken the shoes off yet but last time this happened the pins on the flywheel were bent and blue and had all angled outwards. The bell was pretty gouged too and should probably be replaced our will kill my next set of shoes. Unfortunately money is tight for me and even replacing a clutch/flywheel/bell will probably take a month of saving :cry:.
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LL will your next engine be specifically built for top speed? Will it be another picco?

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Post by LLkoolskillet » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:26 pm

The shoes look fine but your springs are gone. If your burning up a clutch that quickly it means your either binding somewhere or your over geared.

My next engine will be another picco and it's going to custom built for 65+ (fingers crossed)
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Post by nitronly » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:50 pm

The shoes might have a little life left in them. They have huge burrs on the side facing the flywheel which is what is causing them to stick open. It is the bell that looks the worst. I will post a pic of it on monday as I left it at my grandmothers house where I was running today and maybe you can tell me if it's still safe to use. Also the metal shields fell off my clutch bearings and the outside of them was so shiny I could see myself in them. I'm running 20/43 right now.
Good luck with the new mill. When I had my picco done I told Robin that my goal was to build the worlds fastest nitro savage (I see now i'm not the only one with that goal) and top end was was what I wanted the engine built for. Sadly my picco has had under 1/4 gallon through it and sits on a shelf.

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Post by LLkoolskillet » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:41 pm

Haha my picco was not built for speed but for torque. I can tell you this a lot has been learned from my speed runs. Follow my steps and should easily get there.
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Post by nitronly » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:47 pm

I'm going to start by using lighter springs. I think I was running mugen 1.1's, they might have been 1.0's, i'm not sure. Either way I think that could have had something to do with what happened today.

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Post by nitronly » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:53 pm

What is your current transmission set up? Lightened 3rd gear clutch shoe? Did you end up using a stiffer spring? I have 3rd maxxed and I hit it at 1/3 throttle.

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Post by LLkoolskillet » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:19 pm

My tranny is set up as follows

Steel 44t First gear
2nd gear is 1 1/2 turns out from max
3rd gear is maxed with a Nickle Pawl thats been lightened, weights 0.8g now I think stock is 0.9g and honestly its not light enough I shift to soon

I tried the stiffer spring idea but its next to impossible to find a spring rate that will work. Thus why I have been experimenting with the lighten pawl idea. So far it works!
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Post by Purenitro » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:54 pm

Most gold springs are 1.1's, silver is 1.0 and the black is .9, you can measure them also because the # correlates to the thickness. I would run the 1.0's or less and the shoes should last longer, maybe. It definitely got hot and colorful.
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Post by Synk » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:19 pm

I have heard you can give the edge of alum shoes a slight chamfer to keep that burr from forming. It would reduce the weight of the pawl and reduce the contact patch a little but might help save on shoes/cb's/bearings.
Just something i picked up on when i started considering a set of alum shoes.
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:21 pm

Are you talking about slightly filing the edge making it more round?
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Post by nitronly » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:34 pm

That sounds like a good idea Synk. I always have a problem with them burring and binding on the flywheel.
LL did you make the nickel pawl? Did the lightened stock one work well?

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Post by nitronly » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:56 pm

[quote="LLkoolskillet";p="848932"]Sunshine, Nitronly where you guys at with your runs???

Im so curious, I truly hope that this thread with all 19 pgs (WOW) has helped a little bit

Nitronly would you mind please making a video so I can listen to help you reach your goal of 55mph

Sunshine, where do you stand with your traxxas gearing?

Have either of you thought about the CEN diffs. Were talkin a gain of 6-7mph with them alone


As to my truck I stripped the 3rd gear pawl.... what crazy is that im going thru these things so fast. I gues it just show cases the power of ERCM :twisted:[/quote]
6-7 mph from cen diffs? Do you know a good place to get them besides ebay? The only thing I ever bought off ebay was a lunsford titanium tie rod setand it cost $30 to ship me the tiny envelope. I can't inagine what diffs would cost. I used to have a cen genisis sitting in my closet. I wish I didn't sell it for $100.

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Post by Synk » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:21 pm

Not round a 45 degree angle. Supposedly the angle will cut the burr. Again I have never done this but it made sense.
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Post by GSGA » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:59 am

[quote="Synk";p="849308"]Not round a 45 degree angle. Supposedly the angle will cut the burr. Again I have never done this but it made sense.[/quote]

I always do this, and shim them out along with the clutch nut to get more clearance and align the springs. Makes them last a lot longer.
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:47 am

Yes the lightened stock pawl worked very well and yes I made the nickle pawl. Pics are in my project 65 thread.

The cen diffs according to the gearing calc show a gain of 6-7 mph. That's a huge number but i can't reall test that out right now. I did manage 55 mph with the BP diffs. Now with the cens I'm at 59 and I know I would have hit 60 but still there a 4-5 mph gain on my truck.

Shimming the clutch, I too also do this. It keeps the shoes from resting on the flywheel. The nice thing about the integy clutch is it comes with the tiny shims. Also for high speed runs I only recommend 0.9mm springs you will wear the clutch out much much sooner with anything higher.

There is an eBay seller in Canada that has lots of cen gst, Nemisis, and genisis parts up there all the time
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Post by nitronly » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:17 am

Good advice. Those were hpi savage xl stock shoes. I didn't have that problem with the mugen ones. Heres a pic of the mugen shoes i'm using next. I think they already have a chamfer. This might be why my last set of mugen shoes outlasted the hpi ones about 4 times over. I never had them bind up like the hpi ones. I think I might look into ordering a few integy clutch kits. My lhs usually only has the hpi ones and they are definately not worth the $59.00 + tax they charge for one set of shoes and springs.
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:17 am

These are the Integy 7075 shoes. They have that 45* angle on them as well but its only on the top and bottom not in the middle

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Post by bigbigbrig » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:14 am

I saw these today on ebay and thought thy might help with the 50mph club.
I know they are rims are 14mm but I posted this more for the tires.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-Wheels ... 2c6836f2ec

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Post by pipedup » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:22 pm

Congrats on the near 60mph run, that has raised the bar to an extreme level all your hard work and R&D has paid off. When Robin and I made that speed run years ago we just pulled one of my trucks off the wall, changed tires and recorded the speed. I am sorry to say that I kind of lost interest in the hobby but after seeing this thread I think it is time to get back into it. Great work LL
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:15 pm

Haha just wait dude the new ERCM Picco 2.0 is being built right now paired with the worlds lightest endbleed. I'm about to crush 60 mph

Check out my new thread in the projects section "Project 65"

The record you guys had stood for quite along time. What's amazing is its still robins motor that owns the record :twisted:
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