Flywheel wear and odd wear on shoes.

Manufacturer of High Performance Aftermarket Hop Ups for the Savage

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Felix
Savage Extraordinaire
Savage Extraordinaire
Posts: 2873
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Lloydminster, Canada

Flywheel wear and odd wear on shoes.

Post by Felix » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:01 pm

IM starting to notice that my flywheel is starting to wear out on the edges. Its starting to fan out. also the shoes are only wearing on the one edge.

Its like the cluthc slides out and grabs then the flywheel pushes to hard on it cause it to go on a angle then only half the shoe grabs. Its like its pushin to hard on it and with the flywheel woren out it like twist down on it messin up the contact with the cb

I duno replacing the flywheel and shoes is pretty stupid. Im thinkin about a differnt clutch now. Also where do i buy replacment shoes? I dont see any on the sc store?

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
YRN2BRNNITRO
Savage Enthusiast
Savage Enthusiast
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:00 am

Post by YRN2BRNNITRO » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:25 pm

I have also had the same issues. My shoes are wearing on an angle. If you look at the side profile of the shoes, they are tappered. I don't know why this would be happening. The shoes still seem ok, but I will not get the full use of the shoes, as one side is wearing down twice as fast as the other.

Has anyone else had this type of issue? How about the Envy themselves, do you guys have any input as to why this may be taking place.

I bought the GPM Sliding shoes and springs from the SC Store. They are 7075 just like the Envy shoes and as I am told will fit right on the Envy flywheel.

Seems silly that Envy does not sell replacement shoes for their own clutch 8O .

I love this clutch, just am not please about the odd wear of these clutch shoes. I have ran both the 2 and 3 spring setups thinking this may have something to do with the shoes flying out unevenly, and wearing unevenly!

Any info would be appreciated!
Savage 25 (Werks .27)
Innov RC LCG Ext TVP
Envy Bi-Directional Clutch
Cam Servo Saver
Throttle,Steering, Lightning Diff Mod
X75 Beadlock W/ Losi Zombies
Home Made Roll Cage!
Built to go BIG!!!!
And POS Sirio .30

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
Felix
Savage Extraordinaire
Savage Extraordinaire
Posts: 2873
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Lloydminster, Canada

Post by Felix » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:32 pm

Ya i guess they dont care haha. I was confused to why there arent any replacement shoes.

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
YRN2BRNNITRO
Savage Enthusiast
Savage Enthusiast
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:00 am

Post by YRN2BRNNITRO » Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:31 pm

So ENVY being a site sponser, I would have thought maybe they would look at the threads on their products, and MAYBE offer some support/advice.

Hello ANYBODY :roll: ENVY... hello.....

Do I have to start bad mouthing their products to have them come on hear and help us with some advice.

Still love this clutch, just would not mind hearing why my $80 CANADIAN DOLLAR clutch is wearing poorly. And also why I can't buy ENVY shoes for it?

Thanks again... I THINK!!!!
Savage 25 (Werks .27)
Innov RC LCG Ext TVP
Envy Bi-Directional Clutch
Cam Servo Saver
Throttle,Steering, Lightning Diff Mod
X75 Beadlock W/ Losi Zombies
Home Made Roll Cage!
Built to go BIG!!!!
And POS Sirio .30

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
sicj
Savage Extraordinaire
Savage Extraordinaire
Posts: 5706
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:00 pm
Contact:

Post by sicj » Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:11 pm

no you don't have to bad mouth ENVY's products it's the clutches fault. The design of the clutch SUCKS and I have repeated this over and over in the main forum. I told everyone what had happend to my clutch (GPM, but it doesn't matter what brand it's the design) back when it first came out. I tried the stock "plastic" shoes, went to the 7075 alum. shoes, then went to the Fioroni carbon shoes. ALL three sets of shoes wore the same way. The shoes spread open sideways, rather than sliding open. There is no way to prevent the shoes from folding open as oppose to sliding open.

I spent $90 trying to get the slider clutch to work and it failed every time.
Savage SS Basher
TLT Custom Tube-Chassis Crawler
Lunch Box
TA05

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
YRN2BRNNITRO
Savage Enthusiast
Savage Enthusiast
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:00 am

Post by YRN2BRNNITRO » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:46 am

Thanks for the reply sicj.

I wish I would have read more about the clutch before I had purchased it. Tons of people said they love it which I do, but I guess it just has a MAJOR design flaw.

Guess that's why Envy isn't on here offering advice about a product that is know to them to have a flaw in it's design.

I will just run it till it dies, they look at knew clutch when the time comes.

Sicj, what clutch are you having the best success with?

Thanks Sean
Savage 25 (Werks .27)
Innov RC LCG Ext TVP
Envy Bi-Directional Clutch
Cam Servo Saver
Throttle,Steering, Lightning Diff Mod
X75 Beadlock W/ Losi Zombies
Home Made Roll Cage!
Built to go BIG!!!!
And POS Sirio .30

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
oarie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3609
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Post by oarie » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:06 pm

Just to set the record straight, eNVy is not on here because they have no internet connection at their shop. It is not their fault, they are machinists, not computer experts nor can they control the fact that the two main providers for cable and DSL internet, Comcast and Verizon, do not offer service to their location. I just want to clarify the reason why the people from eNVy Racing can not yet provide support and answer questions. This was planned to have been in place months ago but again there is no way for them to get online.

With that out of the way, I've been running the eNVy clutch since before it was available to the public. I have replaced my springs twice and my shoes once and I've been running it for 5-6 gallons, if not more. I'll say 5-6 to be conservative but I believe it to be more like 7. I've had no abnormal wear, nor have I heard of any from any of the several people who I kow personally who use this setup.

Prior to the eNVy clutch being released, the GPM clutch was the clutch of choice for myself and the folks I bash with. The GPM clutch does have a known design flaw which is the fact that the shoes are made from 7075 and the flywheel is 6061. The harder shoes would wear out the flywheel as opposed to the shoes wearing out. Not good. On top of that the GPM has a .009 inch thick brass shim which would last roughly 6-8 tanks before needing to be replaced.

The eNVy clutch corrects all of these problems and for one person out of the thousands who have this clutch to say it has a major design flaw is beyond unfair. The clutch has no design flaws and if you care to do so you can feel free to come to my house and inspect mine. It holds up very well, takes more punishment than any clutch I've used on my Savage in the last 3 years, and hooks up like no other clutch on the market.
O

[url=http://www.savage-central.com/][img]http://www.savage-central.com/banners/468x60banner.gif[/img][/url]

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
YRN2BRNNITRO
Savage Enthusiast
Savage Enthusiast
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:00 am

Post by YRN2BRNNITRO » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:49 pm

I will agree that ENVY has corrected all the short coming of the GPM clutch. With that said, the design of the clutch still seems to flawed.

The reason I say that is the grooves that the springs sit in are different depths. This would result in the sides of the shoes being different weights which would back up the theory that the shoes will FOLD open as they engage, as opposed to sliding open if the shoe halves where of equal weight.

Oarie, would you agree with the theory behind this statement.

I will also agree that this clutch does seem to very very durable, my current issue aside. Again I state that I do think this is a good clutch, even with the accelrated wear on the shoes it is better than any 3 shoes alum shoes I have tried. And the hook up is unmatched !!!!

Thanks Sean.
Savage 25 (Werks .27)
Innov RC LCG Ext TVP
Envy Bi-Directional Clutch
Cam Servo Saver
Throttle,Steering, Lightning Diff Mod
X75 Beadlock W/ Losi Zombies
Home Made Roll Cage!
Built to go BIG!!!!
And POS Sirio .30

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
oarie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3609
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Post by oarie » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:30 pm

YRN2BRNNITRO wrote:The reason I say that is the grooves that the springs sit in are different depths. This would result in the sides of the shoes being different weights which would back up the theory that the shoes will FOLD open as they engage, as opposed to sliding open if the shoe halves where of equal weight.

Oarie, would you agree with the theory behind this statement.


I did take some time to think about this because at first I saw your point about the weight, however slight, possibly causing te shoes to "fold" out as you put it. After serious contemplation I basically figure that the weight difference from one side of the shoes to the other is so slight that it is insignificant. To get a more valuable opinion on this than my own, I contacted a local guy who I consider the most knowledgable individual I know in regards to R/C. He agreed and the success he has shared with the eNVy clutch seems to corroborate what I said earlier.

Another thing we talked about was the fact that the steel shim would prevent the shoes from "folding" out pretty much at all. The shoes are held flat by the inside of the flywheel and by this shim. The more pfront to back play you have in your secured clutch bell, the more room the shoes would have to "fold" out. I usually have around 4-8 thousandths of play in my clutch which would mean the effective maximum distance in which the shoes could possibly "fold" would be half of that, roughly 2-4 thousandths of an inch. That is not much at all.

These are theories and opinions contrived by my friend and I only. I do not claim them to be gospel by any means but I have had extremely impressive results with my clutch as have several personal friends of mine who run the same clutch. I can't explain your situation with the abnormal wear but I stand by my opinion that it is not the fault, nor is it characteristic, of the eNVy clutch.

If you could, throw up a couple of photos so we can see what this wear looks like and how extreme it is. As they say, a picture says a thousand words, maybe they will help solve the mystery.
O

[url=http://www.savage-central.com/][img]http://www.savage-central.com/banners/468x60banner.gif[/img][/url]

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
YRN2BRNNITRO
Savage Enthusiast
Savage Enthusiast
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:00 am

Post by YRN2BRNNITRO » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:36 pm

Oarie:

Thanks for the well thought out and sensible response to my question.
I will post up some pics next week when the wife gets home with the Digi Camera.

In the meantime I have ordered another set of shoes form the SC Store, and I am going to give this clutch another shot. EVEN with the current uneven wear of the shoes that I am experiencing the clutch has still performed well and does last quite a while compared to standard Aluminum shoes that I have run.

I hope this is just an isolated incident on my end with the shoes wear. Only time will tell when I install the new shoes and see how they hold up.

Another question Oarie, have you always run three springs on the shoes? I started with 2 and noticed the shoes wearing unevenly and upped it to 3 springs thinking this may help even out the wear. Also do you put the side with one of two springs facing the clutch bell? These are small questions, but it could be the difference in my case.

Thanks again
Sean :)
Savage 25 (Werks .27)
Innov RC LCG Ext TVP
Envy Bi-Directional Clutch
Cam Servo Saver
Throttle,Steering, Lightning Diff Mod
X75 Beadlock W/ Losi Zombies
Home Made Roll Cage!
Built to go BIG!!!!
And POS Sirio .30

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
Felix
Savage Extraordinaire
Savage Extraordinaire
Posts: 2873
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Lloydminster, Canada

Post by Felix » Mon Aug 08, 2005 9:14 pm

Well i seem to have the same problem but according to oarie i cant have this problem.

Also my flywheel is wearing out after 4 gallons is that normal i dont think replacing the flywheel should be apart of clutch maintence.

My next clutch will be the werks 4shoe i have seen this clutch at races.

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
oarie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3609
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Post by oarie » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:46 am

Felix wrote:Well i seem to have the same problem but according to oarie i cant have this problem.


Yep, you really gave a thorough reading to my post I can see. Go back, re-read. What you see in this post is a few individuals who have had problems with the clutch. What you're not seeing is the thousands using it who aren't complaining. I would have tried to help further but if you want to make wise cracks, my help is not available.
O

[url=http://www.savage-central.com/][img]http://www.savage-central.com/banners/468x60banner.gif[/img][/url]

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
YRN2BRNNITRO
Savage Enthusiast
Savage Enthusiast
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:00 am

Post by YRN2BRNNITRO » Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:33 am

OARIE:

No wise cracks here....

Can you please awnser the 2 questions I had at the bottom of my last post in this thread.

Thanks in advance.
Sean
Savage 25 (Werks .27)
Innov RC LCG Ext TVP
Envy Bi-Directional Clutch
Cam Servo Saver
Throttle,Steering, Lightning Diff Mod
X75 Beadlock W/ Losi Zombies
Home Made Roll Cage!
Built to go BIG!!!!
And POS Sirio .30

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
oarie
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3609
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Post by oarie » Tue Aug 09, 2005 7:19 pm

YRN2BRNNITRO wrote:Another question Oarie, have you always run three springs on the shoes? I started with 2 and noticed the shoes wearing unevenly and upped it to 3 springs thinking this may help even out the wear. Also do you put the side with one of two springs facing the clutch bell? These are small questions, but it could be the difference in my case.


Sorry, I didn't see these questions. I have always run 3 springs with the exception of maybe a tank here and there just testing the performance with 2 springs. I would say that less than 1% of my time with this clutch has been with 2 springs.

I don't think it would really make a difference which way you ran it but personally, I'd run the side that accepts two springs closest to the flywheel. I really don't think this would make a difference at all but this is the way I install mine just out of habit.
O

[url=http://www.savage-central.com/][img]http://www.savage-central.com/banners/468x60banner.gif[/img][/url]

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
Savage4666
Savage Novice
Savage Novice
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:00 am
Contact:

Post by Savage4666 » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:50 pm

Good thing i read this post, ive got the GPM clutch. Do u think the uneven shoe wear could be mostly caused by the brass washer instead of the steel?
if so where could i find a steel replacement? Also have u had any problems with the clutch locking up?

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
KitchenTableMechanic
Savage Extraordinaire
Savage Extraordinaire
Posts: 839
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: Bethlehem P.A.
Contact:

Post by KitchenTableMechanic » Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:18 am

Good thing Iv'e read this post, to see how much ppl don't read post 8O
[img]http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i249/kitchentablemechanic/sig/sig1.jpg[/img]

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

User avatar
Heinz57
Savage Novice
Savage Novice
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:00 am

Post by Heinz57 » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:10 pm

The shoes do wear un even.  I have confirmed it on my own.  However, I don't experience any slipping.  My current shoes have lasted two seasons.  This clutch may not be perfect however It works great.  Much better than stock.  It hooks up un like any other clutch i know.

Link:
BBcode:
HTML:
Hide post links
Show post links

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest