Savage X rebuild

Not your average Savage Hop ups. These are highly modified, with some home-made parts.

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andreg
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Savage X rebuild

Post by andreg » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:39 am

A while back I posted  pictures of my 2013 Savage X with all HPI parts  and said I would just replace things as they break. Well after doing some pretty serious bashing a lot of them broke...

After the truck stopped with the rear wheels seized (which turned out to be because all four screws in the rear diff had broken) I tore the whole thing apart to do some upgrading, and now it's just stuck in a seemingly perpetual "waiting for more parts" cycle.

This is how it stands at the moment:

Image

The chassis had been bent right where the tank was mounted, so I replaced it with an IRC 4mm LCG chassis package:

Image

The IRC kit also had a motor plate that I installed since the HD motor plate I had was broken. I also had a hairline crack in the motor mount, so that was replaced with a GPM motor mount.

After going through a couple of slipper pads, including the ceramic ones, I installed a Robinson Racing Gen 3 slipper unit:

Image

One of the bulkhead braces was broken, so I have replaced them with a Alza-Racing bulkhead brace conversion kit:

Image

The broken motor plate had pushed the motor forwards and as a result the clutch bell sanded down one of my brake pads. I wasn't a huge fan of the stock pink ones anyway, so I replaced them with two of the older grey ones:

Image

It looks like it will be a tight fit, but hopefully it will work well...

Having broken one of the stock wheels earlier (the center cracked), and not liking the grip of the Super Mudders tires I had earlier on gravel, I replaced the wheels and tires with Pro-Line Badlands on Pro-Line F-11 1/2" offset wheels:

Image

I'm tired of breaking fuel tanks, so I also purchased an IRC Pro mid-tank mod kit with mounts for a Firestorm battery box mount, and Hellfire tank:

Image

Having the battery box mounted like this doesn't look strong enough to endure the many nose landings my truck suffers, so I'm not going to use this. Currently I'm leaning towards mounting a Vorza receiver/battery box on the side of the truck. With a small modification it should even hold the Li-Fe battery I wish to use, as well as having place for an on/off switch, receiver and other stuff:

Image

Since I don't use the receiver part from IRC I want to mount the servo underneath the tank plate like LLkoolskillet did on his Black Beauty 2000 build, but there is no room for this on the IRC plate because of the cutouts:

Image

So luckily Dejan at Alza-Racing will make some servo plates that have a 2cm extension without any servo cutout that I can use. As soon as those arrive I can mount the tank and look into how I should bolt on the receiver/battery box on the side.

Three of my big bores had bent shafts at the time of dissasembly, and I'm going to mount Losi Aftershock shocks on the truck now. Since I couldn't find any of the assembled ones earlier I bought the parts needed and built them with a few hop-ups installed. I used Hot Racing titanium shafts with jet vent pistons, RC Raven dual rate springs, and Losi aluminum shock caps (where I removed the blue color):

Image

I have an IRC LST shock mount kit, but would like to find another way to mount the shocks. Since I also have the FLM LST2 shock conversion I'll play around to see if I can find a solution I like better.

The transmission hasn't given me any trouble, but I decided to replace some parts there anyway. I have a spare transmission that I tore down to install titanium shafts and replace the gears with GPM 7075 gears:

Image

In addition to this I have also replaced all the bearings with Acer Racing ceramic bearings. I have used some of these on my Flux earlier, and to be honest these don't seem to offer any real benefit to me, so as they break they will probably be replaced with some standard bearings.
Most of the screws are replaced with screws from Hexcrews, but as I now need several different screws than a standard truck I just use whatever 12.9 steel screws I can find...

On the todo list now is cutting the brake & throttle linkage rods and mounting the Ofna stuff I have there, and I will install the tank and servo on the new plate when that arrives.

I don't have a picture of it, but I have rebuilt the diffs following LLkoolskillet's excellent how to, with the exeption that I used GPM steel gears. Currently I am waiting for some Hot Racing Hardened Steel Spiral Cut Ring and Pinion Gears that will be used on them.

With all this I haven't forgotten about the motor and pipe, so I am waiting for an ERCM pipe, and an LRP 30 X engine.

That is how things are at the moment, but I'll post updates as things progresses. Thanks for looking!

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Post by SV250 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:27 pm

So the lst caps fit the big bores?
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/sv250/383%20Jeep/SV-SIG04-02.png[/img]
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v376/sv250/?special_track=nav_tab_album

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Post by LLkoolskillet » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:56 pm

Truck looks great dude

I hope you didn't use that big shim the stock diff uses in the vorza diff. If so remove it trust me.
[img]http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h358/LLkoolskillet2/skillet1.jpg[/img]

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Post by badboy » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:36 am

Very nice rebuild. Should turn out to be quite a truck.
BADBOY- Savage X: Picco .28,

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Post by SV250 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:44 am

[quote="SV250";p="881519"]So the lst caps fit the big bores?[/quote]

Never mind didn't read well enough.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/sv250/383%20Jeep/SV-SIG04-02.png[/img]
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v376/sv250/?special_track=nav_tab_album

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andreg
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Post by andreg » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:34 pm

[quote="LLkoolskillet";p="881524"]Truck looks great dude

I hope you didn't use that big shim the stock diff uses in the vorza diff. If so remove it trust me.[/quote]

I certainly did! Thanks, I'll remove it when I replace the ring gears later.


[quote="badboy";p="881529"]Very nice rebuild. Should turn out to be quite a truck.[/quote]

Thanks! Hopefully it will, but progress is slow at the moment, so I don't know when it will be done though...


[quote="SV250";p="881532"][quote="SV250";p="881519"]So the lst caps fit the big bores?[/quote]

Never mind didn't read well enough.[/quote]

Yeah, I replaced the HPI big bores with LST shocks. Never had any reason to replace the caps on the big bores, but on the LST shocks I broke three plastic caps pretty soon after installation (roof landings)...

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Post by andreg » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:45 pm

Finally I've managed to get some more work on my truck.

I rebuilt the diffs removing the big shim, and installed the Hot Racing ring gears. Didn't take any pictures during the build since me tampering with diff internals is a messy affair... Here is a picture of what the new diffs look like compared to a stock Flux diff:

Image

Moved the spur, slipper and brakes over to the rebuilt transmission:

Image

During the transmission rebuild I also tried to shim everything as best I can, but there is still some play on the drive shaft since I didn't have any shims that fit... If anyone have any suggestions on what shims to use there I'd be very thankful.

Put some cable sleeving on the servo cables. I'm using a Hitec 7955TG for steering, and a Hitec 7966HB for throttle/brake. Both servos have Racers Edge Aluminum clamping servo horns:

Image

I also put together some Lunsford Racing titanium turnbuckles with the new style HPI ends. Here are my new turnbucles along with the old ones for comparison:

Image

In addition to this I also did some grinding on my RPM arms to reduce the binding (a lot of grinding to be honest), and drilled some holes in the chassis for the new servo plate. Hopefully I'll be able to put some things together in the coming days...

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Post by I_Like_Nitro » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:43 am

Nice. Did you weigh the lunsford rods against the stock? I need to drop some weight on my Savage and run lunsford rods in some other vehicles...they are pricey but well worth it IMO. I'm putting a set on soon. I've not been happy with the HPI rod ends/pivot balls (even the HD ones). I'm going to switch out to either Kyosho or Mugen when I get the lunsford rods. IRC

I'm looking at the IRC TVPs, but really want the 2.5 ones. Wanting it for the LCG, not the 'beefiness'. What I like is they offer a 'standard' length like you have...a bit nervous about increasing the wheelbase on it as it pushes enough as is.

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Post by MonoSavageX » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:12 am

[quote="andreg";p="882324"]Finally I've managed to get some more work on my truck.

I rebuilt the diffs removing the big shim, and installed the Hot Racing ring gears. Didn't take any pictures during the build since me tampering with diff internals is a messy affair... Here is a picture of what the new diffs look like compared to a stock Flux diff:

Image

Moved the spur, slipper and brakes over to the rebuilt transmission:

Image

During the transmission rebuild I also tried to shim everything as best I can, but there is still some play on the drive shaft since I didn't have any shims that fit... If anyone have any suggestions on what shims to use there I'd be very thankful.

Put some cable sleeving on the servo cables. I'm using a Hitec 7955TG for steering, and a Hitec 7966HB for throttle/brake. Both servos have Racers Edge Aluminum clamping servo horns:

Image

I also put together some Lunsford Racing titanium turnbuckles with the new style HPI ends. Here are my new turnbucles along with the old ones for comparison:

Image

In addition to this I also did some grinding on my RPM arms to reduce the binding (a lot of grinding to be honest), and drilled some holes in the chassis for the new servo plate. Hopefully I'll be able to put some things together in the coming days...[/quote]


Do you have a parts list for the differential on the left by chance?
Savage X LRP.32 All sorts of upgrades!!!
Savage SS Custom machined TVPs LRP.28
LOSI 5ive-T Upgraded engine/servos
Jato 3.3 Stock


If your not supposed to break them, why do they make new parts?

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Post by andreg » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:52 am

[quote="I_Like_Nitro";p="882338"]Nice. Did you weigh the lunsford rods against the stock? I need to drop some weight on my Savage and run lunsford rods in some other vehicles...they are pricey but well worth it IMO. I'm putting a set on soon. I've not been happy with the HPI rod ends/pivot balls (even the HD ones). I'm going to switch out to either Kyosho or Mugen when I get the lunsford rods. IRC

I'm looking at the IRC TVPs, but really want the 2.5 ones. Wanting it for the LCG, not the 'beefiness'. What I like is they offer a 'standard' length like you have...a bit nervous about increasing the wheelbase on it as it pushes enough as is.[/quote]

Thanks. Sorry about the late reply. The nice summer weather has made me get online a lot less than usual...
To be honest my main motivation for getting the Lunsford rods was that I find the stock ones a pain to adjust. The steering screws get bent all the time so I find myself adjusting the rods often to compensate.
Unfortunately I don't know the weight difference on the rods, since I don't have a good scale to check. I have ordered one that is in transit now, as well as another set of Lunsford rods for my Flux, so I can check later and let you know.

My motivation for getting the IRC package was the added strength because I had bent the standard chassis, but I have noticed that I should look at how to lighten my truck now...


[quote="MonoSavageX";p="882511"]
Do you have a parts list for the differential on the left by chance?[/quote]

Most of the stuff is the same as LLkoolskillet used in his excellent "Vorza/Savage BP diff How to"

I think these are the parts I used to build my differentials:
HPI 101026 Differential housing
HPI Z721 4x4mm set screw (for the housing)
GPM SSAV1200 Hard Steel bevel gears
HPI 101392 4X10X0.15MM washers (or you can use the ones from your current differentials)
HPI 86599 aluminum diff case washer
Hot Racing HSF299X Hardened steel ring gears
HPI 86248 Super Heavy Duty Diff shaft (since I currently use the Super Heavy Duty drive set)
In addition to this I used two 8x16x5 ceramic bearings and some 8x10x0.2mm washers. I also used M3x20mm 12.9 steel screws to compensate for not using threadlock on the screws.

Note that I haven't tested these diffs yet, so I cannot comment on how they function.
What I have done is check around to see what parts are likely to get me solid diffs, but before I have used them I can't recommend splashing out the cash on this conversion.
What I can say is that the Hot Racing Ring gears are a really tight fit in the bulkheads. Mine are well used and there didn't seem to be any binding issues, but I'm not really sure how well they will work in completely new bulkheads. Also the GPM gears seem a bit rougher than the standard bevel gears, but hopefully that will sort itself out after some running...
For my use the ceramic bearings haven't given any real benefit, so those will be replaced with regular rubber shielded bearings when they break.

In the interest of saving weight a couple of these parts are candidates to be replaced when I tear down and rebuild my Flux soon. The Super Heavy Duty drive stuff is likely to be replaced, at least.

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Post by andreg » Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:40 am

I finally managed to get all the parts together.
There are probably a few things I have forgotten, but this should be most of the parts I have used:

Innovative RC 4mm LCG TVPs and motor plate ("Standard TVPs Package")
Innovative RC Losi shock mounting kit
Innovative RC shock standoffs for RPM-arms (used with ProTec RC M3x40mm screws)
Innovative RC mid-tank mounts for HPI Hellfire tank and servo mounts

Alza Racing bulkhead braces (upper and lower)
Alza Racing bulkhead plates
Alza Racing servo plate (custom made with 2cm extension in front and no cutouts)

GPM Motor mount
GPM throttle/brake mount
GPM aluminium chassis braces
GMP aluminium steering mixed with some stock HPI parts

Integy HD rear hub carriers
Integy steering knuckles
Integy castor blocks in front

RPM center skid plate
RPM A-arms

Lunsford Racing 4x70mm turnbuckles with HPI rod ends

Robinson Racing Gen3 slipper unit
Robinson Racing 16 tooth clutchbell

Dynamite Max-Life clutch shoes

Hitec 7955TG servo for steering
Hitec 7966HB servo for throttle/brake

Racers Edge servo horns
Racers Edge servo mounts for steering servo

Pro-Line Badlands 3.8" tyres
Pro-Line F-11 1/2" offset wheels

Hot Racing 17mm conversion kit

T-Bone Racing front and rear bumpers

HPI stock skid plates,hinge pins, bulkheads, shock towers, body mounts and rollbar
HPI Super Heavy Duty driveshaft/axle set
HPI HD Servo saver spring
HPI HD center cups
HPI HD center shafts
HPI Vorza Receiver/battery box
HPI Hellfire tank
HPI stone fuel filter black

Acer ceramic bearings

Hexcrews screws mainly, but various other 12.9 screws where needed

Shocks:
Losi Aftershock shocks w/ Losi Alu caps, Hot Racing "jet vent" pistons and RC Raven dual rate springs

Differentials:
"Vorza diff mod" with GPM gears and Hot Racing spiral gears
30k Mugen silicone oil in front and 50k rear

Transmission:
2-speed with HPI titanium shafts and GPM 7075 gears

Throttle/brake linkage:
Bits from "Ofna Ultra LX2 brake linkage" plus "Ofna Throttle Linkage rods 30802" and "Great Planes Threaded Ball Link Set 2-56"

Engine:
LRP 30X with LRP "Spec 2 Pull Start Backplate", LRP "Rotostart Set" and spring from LRP "Pull Start Assembly". Also added "Large Motor Saver air filter for Savage" and ERCM polished sidebleed pipe using stock HPI Savage X header.

Futaba 4PLS transmitter and Futaba R304SB telemetry receiver (Hub plus SBS-01RM rpm sensor and SBS-01T temp sensor will be installed sometime later...).
Dynamite SpeedPack Green 1300mAh 2S LiFe battery


Here is the extended Alza servoplate with steering, servo and tank mounted:

Image

Since I am unable to find the Integy T2 steering I want to use I have put together a mix of GPM alu steering parts and some stock parts for now...


Servoplate mounted:

Image


I feared there might be some issues with the driveshaft and the servo arm, but luckily this is not an issue, even if it seems tight from below:

Image


The battery/receiverbox doesn't have as much room as I had expected, so I'm regretting that I didn't cut the servo wires:

Image


Here is a shot of everything assembled:

Image


This is how my brake/throttle linkage ended up. I didn't want to have a bend in the brake link, but had to since it will bind with the rollbar if I have it any higher:

Image


From the other side:

Image


I didn't have a clear vision on how I wanted the truck to end up, but so far I think it looks pretty good.

Still on the "ToDo"-list:
Cut and paint Pro-Line 1966 Ford F-100 body
Install Integy T2 Steering bell crank (as soon as I can get one...)
Install Robinson Racing vented aluminium flywheel (after I remove the color and polish it...)
Install telemetry sensors and hub (sometime after I figure out a good way to mount them...)

Hopefully I'll be able to start running in the motor during the coming week and sort out any issues as they come.

Thanks for looking!

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Post by andreg » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:39 pm

Some more pictures:

Image


A better look at how I routed the fuel lines. Hopefully they will stay in place...
I used one of the leftover rods from my servo setup to make a mount for the exhaust, but it looks kinda tiny, so I'll make it out of something beefier later:

Image


A shot of the LRP cooling head where I have removed the blue color. Some traces of it are still there, but not enough to bother me:

Image


A closeup of the throttle/brake servo. I used some rubber grommets from a Hitec servo mounting kit to lift the servo a bit and reduce the angle on the throttle rod:

Image


The sleeved wires blend in well and hopefully the cables have a bit of protection as well. In the picture you can also see how the IRC chassis doesn't have a cutout for the nylon rollbar, so some dremeling on the rollbar is needed:

Image


The underside:

Image


The RPM center skid plate can still be used even if the IRC chassis doesn't have the same bend as the standard chassis. I wanted to use the IRC mounting braces so I carved out some new holes in the plate and left some screws in the old holes.
This was before I noticed that the rear IRC brace is directly under the front motor screws, so I'll switch back to the RPM braces the next time I have to remove the motor screws:

Image


Now hopefully I'll have time to mend this dusty, battered and broken down beast:

Image


Thanks for looking!

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Post by I_Like_Nitro » Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:21 am

Great job! This has been an extremely impressive rebuild to follow. I appreciate the fact you explicitly understand why you are making specific changes. I'll post up my rebuild here soon. We have a similar design as no doubt I learned some things from this thread. I've been rebuilding on the go, in that I was extremely iterative, ran the *censored* out of it focusing on specific areas of the vehicle and have put the final parts on it, including a new Clocked Nova 28 with 9886/401001. Today is the eight straight day I've not run my Savage (which is a record) so I can't WAIT to get after it!

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Post by andreg » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:01 pm

Thanks for the kind words! Beware of giving me too much credit, though, as I am by no means an expert on this. I've used lots of time searching this site and others for inspiration on what to do, along with some experimetation as the build progressed.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to use the truck much yet, but the 7-8 tanks I have ran through it so far have already revealed some flaws in my build. Some of them have been simple user errors, such as not putting the o-ring on the backplate of the engine or not having the springs for the clutch shoes secured on the nut. Another thing is that the spider gears for the diffs still feel very rough, but hopefully will become better with more use.
One thing that seems to have been a blatant mistake was replacing the gears in the transmission with alu gears. It seems to me like those just couldn't handle the workload and several of the gears have already had their teeth ground down. Currently I am running a mix of the stock gears and alu gears, but I'll rebuild the transmission with some
titanium gears mixed in later.

I'm looking forward to seeing your build posted! Using a Clocked Nova 28 with 9886/401001 sounds sweet, and it's a change from the Picco Boost that seems to be favored on most builds here. I must admit I've set my sights on a CRE modded Picco as my next engine, but decided to get an LRP for now to learn more about nitro engines.

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Post by I_Like_Nitro » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:10 pm

Ha ha. Well, as you know the more changes you make the more chances for user error there will be. While I'm not a MT guy per se, I do work on a lot of nitro buggies/truggies and learned a while back the importance of having 'checkpoints' in a rebuild in that you make a few changes, run it and analyze those changes, etc. At least you've been able to diagnose your issues. Back in the day when I'd rebuild everything in one full swoon it took me a while to determine any problem areas, so now--as I noted--I use an iterative approach and it's worked beautifully!

Yeah, I'm real curious how my transmission (which is 100% stock, but new) will handle this torque. I've wavered back and forth between plastic and steel...but in the end my original stock has 9 gallons and still in pretty good shape. Surprisingly my diffs were flawless. This could all change the first time I squeeze the throttle hard and fast, but until then I've been relatively impressed with the Savage gearing. Of course my background is with center diffs so the transmission is somewhat new to me....but gears are gears, I guess. ;-)

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Post by LLkoolskillet » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:54 pm

Truck looks sick dude

I Like Nitro if you want to check out my thread below I have the various weights of lots of savage parts in it. It should help you out

modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=96702
[img]http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h358/LLkoolskillet2/skillet1.jpg[/img]

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Post by loosegroove » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:53 pm

[quote="andreg";p="883114"]Thanks for the kind words! Beware of giving me too much credit, though, as I am by no means an expert on this. I've used lots of time searching this site and others for inspiration on what to do, along with some experimetation as the build progressed.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to use the truck much yet, but the 7-8 tanks I have ran through it so far have already revealed some flaws in my build. Some of them have been simple user errors, such as not putting the o-ring on the backplate of the engine or not having the springs for the clutch shoes secured on the nut. Another thing is that the spider gears for the diffs still feel very rough, but hopefully will become better with more use.
One thing that seems to have been a blatant mistake was replacing the gears in the transmission with alu gears. It seems to me like those just couldn't handle the workload and several of the gears have already had their teeth ground down. Currently I am running a mix of the stock gears and alu gears, but I'll rebuild the transmission with some
titanium gears mixed in later.

I'm looking forward to seeing your build posted! Using a Clocked Nova 28 with 9886/401001 sounds sweet, and it's a change from the Picco Boost that seems to be favored on most builds here. I must admit I've set my sights on a CRE modded Picco as my next engine, but decided to get an LRP for now to learn more about nitro engines.[/quote]

Frist  - that is just a SICK total upgrade!!!

Second - After it's all said and done - Do you recommend the DIFF upgrade with the GPM gears. I am about to replace some Diff parts on my Savage X and I am wondeing if it' worth the full Vorza upgrade

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Post by gablett » Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:17 pm

So I am interested in this Vorza battery/receiver box. Can someone point me to a place to purchase one as I cannot find one. Thanks!

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Post by andreg » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:14 pm

[quote="I_Like_Nitro";p="883118"]
Of course my background is with center diffs so the transmission is somewhat new to me....but gears are gears, I guess. ;-)
[/quote]

Yeah, I have an Alza CD in my Flux and really like that setup. Tried to find a center diff for my X, but unfortunately I was unable to find anyone who make one for the nitro Savages...

[quote="LLkoolskillet";p="883139"]Truck looks sick dude[/quote]

Thanks, a lot of it is inspired by the info and builds you have posted here!

[quote="loosegroove";p="883262"]
Frist

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Post by MShark » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:34 am

interested to know how this project came along. Any updates?
Looking for well modded truggy/buggy, PM me! Also maybe Savage X/XL

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