Finally Got It!!! Racer Suspension

Questions about Hop Ups for the Savage.

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sicj
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Finally Got It!!! Racer Suspension

Post by sicj » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:57 pm

Image
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What It Includes
Front Left/Right Specific Knuckles
Front Left/Right Specific Uprights
Rear Left/Right Specific Toe-In Carriers
Front/Rear Lower Upper Arm Bulk Mounts
Front/Rear Adjustable Upper Camber Arms
HD Hing Pins
Plus all misc. hardware/tools and locktite

What It Does
-Gets rid of a lot of the slop in the suspension by using machined alum. parts.
-Lowers the chassis' roll center
-Adds More Steering Caster
-Adds a machined-in rear toe-in angle, thus eliminating the rear tie rods
-Gives you adjustable Camber

Three Main Reasons For This Kit

Lower Roll Center: Lower Camber link position
-Less on-power steering
-car responds quicker to input
-Use on high grips tracks to prevent traction rolling
-Use on tracks with quick direction changes

More Caster: Front Knuckle leans to the rear
-Less off-power steering into the corner
-More on-power steering in/and out of the corner
-More straight-line stability

Less Suspension Slop: Shimmy Is Bad
Eliminates the rear toe tie rods which develop significant slop after a few runs on them.
Eliminates the plastic flexible knuckles/uprights. The wheels yank and crank on the suspension more than anything else and having them move around and not track straight provides a unresponsive/unpredictable vehicle.


What you have to do (by the manual)
-Shave the Bulkhead upper arm area for clearance
-Shave the front-rear shock mounting tabs on the Savage X arms for clearance.
-Eliminate the two front-rear shocks for clearance.
-Add 40-50wt. oil and two preload collars on the remaining two front shocks to make up for the two removed.

Weight Comparison SC = Suspension Conversion ; S = Stock

Adjustable Upper Arm
SC = .4oz/13g
S = .5oz/17g

Steering Knuckle
SC = .6oz/19g
S = .6oz/19g

Front Upright
SC = .7oz/20g
S = .6oz/18g

Complete Rear Upright
SC = 1.1oz/33g
S = 1.4oz/40g

Complete Front Steering
SC = 1.7oz/49g
S = 1.7oz/49g


EDIT: 11-15-06

I found a little thing that need to be addressed....

I noticed that between the knuckle and the upright that the steel knuckle bushing was already wearing into the knuckle taking the annodizing away....Just from turning the wheels back and forth! Not even driving it, let alone with the total weight of the vehicle pushing on them.

So I had some special Tamiya grease from previous kits that is designed for this metal-on-metal rubbing (like in CVD's) which I used it on aswell.

Here's a pic of what I'm talking about and where to apply the grease.
Image

I'm glad I found this wearing issue before I ran this kit. Without this grease I could see it being a huge problem within the first gallon of running it. Eventually ruining your knuckle and causing slop/binding.

If you've had a Tamiya kit before you should have this grease. It comes in a little jar with the kits, but in a tube when you buy it seperately.
Last edited by sicj on Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by scrogg » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:01 pm

Sweet! Post us a pic with it installed, give us a review.....you know the drill
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Post by SavageGoZoom » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:13 am

Jered u lucky man you! We so need to see done pics asap! :lol:
-Nick

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Post by hypa » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:23 am

Awesome!!!

Where did you get it from?

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Post by SavageGoZoom » Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:33 am

hypa wrote:Awesome!!!

Where did you get it from?
he works at a california hobby shop :wink: That says it all
-Nick

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Post by SFDTREV » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:36 am

AHHHH purple, I hate purple. Looks interesting though. I look forward to a review.

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Post by sicj » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:07 am

Yeah we've had it on backorder for 3-4 months. Then one day I walked in a bam, it was there.

Funny thing about the kit is it looks like they wanted to include a full cet of 17mm CVD's but didn't....the cut out in the foam show where the CVDs would go.

I'll try and get pics posted later tonight. These are for my racer which is not nearly done yet, but I'll get the suspesion hung. I won't be able to test the perfromance of this kit for awhile so we'll have to rely on someone else for that.

I'm sending it to the annodizer in 1-2 weeks to strip it and get it re-anno'd in black.
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Post by USRFobiwan » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:56 am

For the price they should have included the cvds :x
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Post by Integra » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:45 am

does it say u cant use 4 shocks on the front end and instructions to run 2 shocks included ? ? ? ? ..whats with that ?
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Post by KiZ » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:30 am

Integra wrote:does it say u cant use 4 shocks on the front end and instructions to run 2 shocks included ? ? ? ? ..whats with that ?


Thats what was on my mind too! Why on earth not? and why would they have four shocks in all the pictures if you couldnt run it like that.

It seems a little messy. CVDs scrapped, but the packaging left with spaces for them? Cant run four front shocks even though the pcitures advertise otherwise? and the price?! tower says 149.99. Is this true?! Unbelievablely over priced. =/

oh well. Thanks for the quality writeup sicj. It was a good read. Very informative :)
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Post by sicj » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:07 pm

Sorry no final pics yet Too dark for good pics so tomorrow night I'll post 'em.


To answer some questions...

does it say u cant use 4 shocks on the front end and instructions to run 2 shocks included ? ? ? ? ..whats with that ?


Yes the reason for this is the huge amount of added caster drops the turnbuckle in closer at full lock when steering. So much so that it would slam into the shocks and cause binding. In the manual they tell you what to do to the other two remaining shocks (dampening and spring rate) to make up for the two you have to remove.
But HPI knows our Savage community and what we do to our racers. Many of us just go to four buggy shocks anyways (which I'm also doing). Remember this is not a bashing suspension, it's a handling suspension.

They put four shocks in the pics but tell you why inside the manual as well as a fluorescent sticker on the back stating the use of only two front shocks. Once again, finalizing the packaging before the product (that's why there so many holes in the stock chassis) I also wound up with two unused purple spacers that the manual doesn't even acknowledge.

On another note.... I do have it all put together mocked up on the stock chassis w/ wheels/tires and it looks great! Zero bump steer and minimal camber change throughout the suspension cycling. And with this kit hung on a set of RPM arms I have ZERO slop in the suspension. It's fantastic. The rear toe blocks add 1* of negative toe-in and the upper camber links are set at dead zero by manual specs. Perfect starting point for tuning.

*censored* I'll take a few crappy pics right now and post 'em up and take better pics tomorrow. Sound good?... :twisted:
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Post by sicj » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:27 pm

here they are...

Front

Image
Image


Rear

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Post by scrogg » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:32 pm

Couldn't wait till after they were reannodized eh? :D Looks great Is that the RPM arms?
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Post by rcbasher38 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:06 am

wow sicj...i cant wait to see the rest of the savage once its back from the machine shop. should be crazy. do i spy kyosho rims? i really like those. there 17mm hex correct?

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Post by hypa » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:35 am

So this suspension set works with buggy shocks perfectly? Can you use the 23mm conversion from Pro-Line with it?

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Post by sicj » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:33 am

More Pics...

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Obviously this was just thrown together for you guys to seee what it looks like......but....



that's all you get of my racer! :wink:
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Post by KiZ » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:41 am

Looks great man. Keep us updated as you add more :)
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Post by sicj » Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:43 am

O yeah here some pics of what you have to shave on the X bulks to get the upper arm drop bracket to fit...

Image
Image

you aslo have to shave on the original bulks but it's just for the rod end clearance, not for the bracket.
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Post by redneckracer » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:12 pm

Are they gonna sell seperate parts for this kit? I am only interested in the rear hubs. Also will LST shocks clear everything fine?

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Post by tonyp1 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:14 pm

I got slightly different rear toe readings. See Pics below

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You can see it is reading 2.5 degree toe in. I'm going to switch the rear carriers left to right an see what I get.

Camber for the rear was very nice at -1 degree when the upper arm are set per the manual

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Here is detail of upper arm attachment

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Shock absorber interference, front shock, at maximum allowable turn angle.

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Camber gain with wheels at max turn angle. Straight ahead camber was set a -3 degree

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