Vorza/Savage BP diff How to

Questions about Hop Ups for the Savage.

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Dcdanger
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Re: Vorza/Savage BP diff How to

Post by Dcdanger » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:14 am

I am working on a Savage Flux with the XL conversion.

I tried to follow this thread and build some bullet proof diffs for my ride.

I bought 2 new complete Vorza diffs off ebay, installed the GPM bevel and spider gear set part #1200 with the HR ring and pinion set. Problem I am having is the spider gears on my front diff locked up as if there was too much gap between the bevel and spider gears and they are skipping and getting jammed. I disasembled them and there was no gear damage to anything but I am unsure as to how to prevent this from happening again except for maybe installing a washer behind the bevel gears to shim them closer to the pinions. I havent heard of anyone having to do this and wanted to get some feedback. I noticed there is a GPM part #1202 gear set for the Savage Flux and XL, perhaps I bought the wrong set of gears ? Thanks in advance for any feedback.

I wanted to bring this to everyones attention just in case anyone else runs into this same problem.

*Update- Contacted GPM about this issue, they informed me they do not sell a gearset made for the vorza diff. The SSAV1200 and SSAV1202 are for the Savage and Savage X.

*Update II - The vorza diff is about .002 longer as measured from the ring gear mounting to the base of the bearing mount (as shown in the picture from Kool). Not much but enough to prevent adequate mesh with the GPM gear set. I ended up using the vorza diffs with the GPM bevel gears but with the flux pinion gears. Ring and pinion mesh is acceptable but due to the wider vorza diff I was unable to install any shims to tighten it up to where I usually like to run them. I will provide a long term assessment after some thrashing.

*Update III - About 12 packs thru on 4s, still smooth, might be going to a 5s setup as I am finally getting comfortable running 4s, then we will see how well these diffs hold up.
Last edited by Dcdanger on Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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savagenoob
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Post by savagenoob » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:00 am

I have found an alternative to the HPI 8mm shims. They are from Calandra Racing Concepts and are exactly the same as the HPI shim but come 20 to a pack for the same price. My LHS screwed me around about the HPI shims so I jumped on eBay and found these. The part number is 4738
Hellfire mid-tank, F4.6, 18/47, XL 3-speed, Max-life alu shoes/Mugen 1.0 springs, Losi HT pipe
Other rides: REVO w/Mach2 .19, REVO w/3.3, T-Maxx w/2.5R, Stampede w/ Megatech M16, HPI firestorm, ECX Circuit

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fornowagain
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Post by fornowagain » Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:43 pm

[quote="LLkoolskillet";p="876760"]Ok here's a long over due update. You know that big shim I put under the big bevel gears. Well it's not needed, otherwards don't use it if you have. What happens is it makes the mesh to tight and the small gears rub on the shafts they sit on and create small metal shavings. Now I had now way of knowing this when I put mine together but I do know lol.
[/quote]There's two, so that's leave them out for both ends then?

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Lilbomb
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Post by Lilbomb » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:53 pm

So here is my issue if anyone still reads this thread. I have all the stuff to build this parts wise. When I took apart my stock stuff and tried to fit the stock diff cup (I think i'm saying that right) into the Vorza housing or the PHI 102692 big diff gear, they won't fit. Do I need to get new cups as well?

Sorry if i'm saying that part wrong but it's the part in Step 1 where the dog bones go into that is too big.

Thanks!

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LLkoolskillet
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:17 pm

[quote="fornowagain";p="884283"]There's two, so that's leave them out for both ends then?[/quote]

Yes leave them both out
[img]http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h358/LLkoolskillet2/skillet1.jpg[/img]

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LLkoolskillet
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:19 pm

[quote="Lilbomb";p="884583"]So here is my issue if anyone still reads this thread. I have all the stuff to build this parts wise. When I took apart my stock stuff and tried to fit the stock diff cup (I think i'm saying that right) into the Vorza housing or the PHI 102692 big diff gear, they won't fit. Do I need to get new cups as well?

Sorry if i'm saying that part wrong but it's the part in Step 1 where the dog bones go into that is too big.

Thanks![/quote]

It should fit in there. Can you post a pic so i can see?
[img]http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h358/LLkoolskillet2/skillet1.jpg[/img]

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Lilbomb
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Post by Lilbomb » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:54 pm

Got them to fit, had to sand down the cup a bit but not much at all. My issue as we speak is shimming. With no shims at all and installed I have no play at all. That makes me nervous. Lol Most every video i've watched there needs to be shimming. I put the diff in and tried to move it side to side and I get no play. So maybe I don't need to shim it?

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Lilbomb
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Post by Lilbomb » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:14 pm

Here is a pic installed. I grab the cups and get no "side to side" play. That normal with no shims?

Sorry....can't figure out how to add a photo. Went to Add an Attachment and got the pic but won't load it for some reason. And it's 156kb so it's below the required size restriction. Sorry.

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Post by Squid » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:48 pm


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LLkoolskillet
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:33 pm

Read the link Squid posted so you can post pics, something does not sound right with your diff
[img]http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h358/LLkoolskillet2/skillet1.jpg[/img]

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Lilbomb
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Post by Lilbomb » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:05 pm

So I think this link will work. But that being said....it's just a pic of the diff. My main question is about shimming right now. With this installed as is I have no shims in there at all and I get no free play side to side. Is that normal?

Let me know if the link did not work.

Thanks!



http://s144.photobucket.com/user/Creeks ... m.jpg.html

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fornowagain
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Post by fornowagain » Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:02 pm

Having just done this mod, thanks for the write up. Bought all the bits using the latest part numbers. Got to the end of the build about to fill em up and realized the list missed the grub screws for the vorza housing. Yes I now know its says so on page 2, ok I didn't read it all. So if you're making a list you need 1 per diff M4 x 4mm grub screws or all you oil will leak out lol.

@Lilbomb on mine, two brand new composite bulkheads both needed two shims on the caster gear side and just one external between the pinion and in drive cup to remove slop.

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messiah1
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Post by messiah1 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:20 am

[quote="LLkoolskillet";p="876760"]Ok here's a long over due update. You know that big shim I put under the big bevel gears. Well it's not needed, otherwards don't use it if you have. What happens is it makes the mesh to tight and the small gears rub on the shafts they sit on and create small metal shavings. Now I had now way of knowing this when I put mine together but I do know lol. [/quote]

Glad I came back in here to read this thread.  As I've just torn down these diffs for the first time since I did this mod, this is good to know before putting back together...

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I_Like_Nitro
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Post by I_Like_Nitro » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:53 am

Shims inside of diffs can be problematic due to a lot of reasons..including getting bent. Different metals can aksi wear and jack your diff oil.

Regarding out-drive shims I would not let more than a 1mm of play in the out-drives,. One thing you can do is double-up on the gaskets. A lot of people have a cow when I say that, it's worked flawlessly 100% of the time I've had to do it. The Savage diffs are by far the easiest I've had to maintain. I see a lot of people having shim problems, but I;'ve not had to shim the ring/pinion,. I;'d advice for those shimming the ring/piinion to be rear careful the pinion dosnt rub against the diff house (cup)

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Post by 6nelson » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:15 pm

I've been searching high and low for the hpi 86599 aluminum gasket and cannot find any. They are discontinued for some reason. Is there another aluminum gasket maybe from another diff that could be used or am I stuck using paper ones? If paper is one enough or are more recommended?

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Post by turboit13 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:48 pm

[quote="6nelson";p="885134"]I've been searching high and low for the hpi 86599 aluminum gasket and cannot find any. They are discontinued for some reason. Is there another aluminum gasket maybe from another diff that could be used or am I stuck using paper ones? If paper is one enough or are more recommended?[/quote]

a little late but I found some on ebay for about $6 shipped or so.
*update* the ones I received were not the metal ones! ???? I'm guessing they are discontinued.

On a side note, so I've finally started up trying to build my savvy again. I sourced d8t front, rear,
and center diffs. they are the ty tessman setup so the cross pins are of the lightweight variety (aluminum)
instead of steel I'm guessing.
Last edited by turboit13 on Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LLkoolskillet
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:50 pm

The racing versions of these cups from HB are the same but IMO the Tessman stuff is for a lighter vehicle but hey run cause if you break it report it and let us know
[img]http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h358/LLkoolskillet2/skillet1.jpg[/img]

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tonino1991
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Post by tonino1991 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:04 am

Hey, I'm going to build the vorza diffs but can I use the 4 bevel gear conversion kit from the savage diff?? my LHS doesn't have the vorza bevel gears... neither the aluminium gaskets... Can I build the diffs like that??

thanks!

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