Part# list for Flux 5SC center diff

Questions about Hop Ups for the Savage.

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carmaster65
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Re: Part# list for Flux 5SC center diff

Post by carmaster65 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:29 pm

So far I can't get it together. Need to order spacer set HPI107496 and see if that shifts things. Also of note is the X SS diff will require bearing B032 instead of B085 in the exploded view. This was just with the flux tranny.

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Post by carmaster65 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:20 am

Ascender,

What parts did you have to change to get everything lined up correctly? I can get the diff in but I can't get anything to line up. Does spacer set HPI107496 move the diff that much? Right now it's looking like all gears and shafts need to be swapped. How far did you go with needing parts from the super 5sc tranny?

Here is my stalled progress. I've ordered more parts and will still need more. Worst case I just end up building a S5sc tranny.

diff spacing compared to the flux.
Image
Image

diff in all nice and shimmed.
Image

stock flux gears (top pic) and the diff installed (bottom pic). there is no way spacers are moving that diff enough to line up. the 44t idler lines up with the diff but will not seat in the case. It might if changed to the 5sc 41t idler. I think the shaft 100905 moves the gears as well, it looks like they flip it for the 5sc. flipping the shaft around for the stock flux gears doesn't work, at least without grinding some of the hub down to clear a pin hole. not something I want to do to a perfectly good gear.
stock
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diff
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Post by Djeap » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:16 am

[quote="carmaster65";p="860116"]Ascender,

What parts did you have to change to get everything lined up correctly? I can get the diff in but I can't get anything to line up. Does spacer set HPI107496 move the diff that much? Right now it's looking like all gears and shafts need to be swapped. How far did you go with needing parts from the super 5sc tranny?

Here is my stalled progress. I've ordered more parts and will still need more. Worst case I just end up building a S5sc tranny.

diff spacing compared to the flux.
Image
Image

diff in all nice and shimmed.
Image

stock flux gears (top pic) and the diff installed (bottom pic). there is no way spacers are moving that diff enough to line up. the 44t idler lines up with the diff but will not seat in the case. It might if changed to the 5sc 41t idler. I think the shaft 100905 moves the gears as well, it looks like they flip it for the 5sc. flipping the shaft around for the stock flux gears doesn't work, at least without grinding some of the hub down to clear a pin hole. not something I want to do to a perfectly good gear.
stock
Image
diff
Image[/quote]

Dude, you are doing awesome ground work... If my rig would not be running so smooth at the moment with the original flux tranny I would be right there with you in the trenches... Respect for keeping us posted on the progress with this upgrade. Really appreciate it.

Hope you get it resolved without too much "magic" and frustration.

Cheers Djeap
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Post by carmaster65 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:06 pm

Thanks man, know what you mean about it running so smooth. My daily savage truck is dialed right now, having a hard time wanting to take it apart!

Last night I ordered the rest of the parts to finish the 5SC tranny conversion minus the dual pad slipper ( I did order the shaft though). My plan is to start swapping out parts from a stock flux HP tranny and see where I can stop. I would like to use the single pad slipper or at least the regular gears somehow. It looks like I'll need tall gearing to get it back in line if I end up with a full conversion. Thanks to kpturbo for the gearing info!

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Post by Ascender » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:30 pm

The upper shaft from the Flux HP DOES work just fine with the new 5SC upper gears. That's what I'm using now. I don't think the 5SC shaft will work with single-pad slipper, though.

I thought the spacing might be a little different, but not THAT dramatically. I never had the thought to compare them while I was doing the conversion, and haven't had time since. I had originally thought the diff might be usable in the 3spd, but I guess not. Bleh.
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Post by carmaster65 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:03 pm

That is the flux tranny in the pics. The idker for the 2speed is the same, i checked it this evening. im running my 3speed tomorrow. after that I'll check it. i bet its the same. this diff is definitely not drop in. thats why im asking what you had to change to get your diff working?

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Post by FluxNZ » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:07 pm

Awesome work people. This is why I like Savage Central because of it's wealth of information (people share).
Kind I of wish I had design my TVP's to suit the standard transmission but there is still the issue of fitting a large motor like the 2028 :P
Savage Flux HP - Mild Mods.
Savage Flux 5SC/5T - Custom built.
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Post by nas50gt » Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:51 pm

I'm just now building this Tranny and finished but I have a question.  Why such a thick gease for the Center diff you mentioned 200k for the center diff.

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Post by Ascender » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:38 pm

[quote="carmaster65";p="860156"]That is the flux tranny in the pics. The idker for the 2speed is the same, i checked it this evening. im running my 3speed tomorrow. after that I'll check it. i bet its the same. this diff is definitely not drop in. thats why im asking what you had to change to get your diff working?[/quote]

I basically used the whole 5SC trans except for the top shaft. All 5SC gears. One of the center set of idlers actually includes a center shaft, so that MIGHT be different, but I'm not sure. Like I said, I never had the thought to compare them side-by-side while I was doing my swap, or I would have caught the different spacing on the bottom gear. I shall change my original post to reflect that discrepancy, though, so others don't run into the same issue.
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Post by carmaster65 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:06 pm

[quote="Ascender";p="860216"][quote="carmaster65";p="860156"]That is the flux tranny in the pics. The idker for the 2speed is the same, i checked it this evening. im running my 3speed tomorrow. after that I'll check it. i bet its the same. this diff is definitely not drop in. thats why im asking what you had to change to get your diff working?[/quote]

I basically used the whole 5SC trans except for the top shaft. All 5SC gears. One of the center set of idlers actually includes a center shaft, so that MIGHT be different, but I'm not sure. Like I said, I never had the thought to compare them side-by-side while I was doing my swap, or I would have caught the different spacing on the bottom gear. I shall change my original post to reflect that discrepancy, though, so others don't run into the same issue.[/quote]

Ok that makes sense now. All the trannys have the same bottom gear spacing flux, 2spd, 3spd. The middle shaft on the 5SC is the same part # as the flux, they just flip it and add the 5sc gears. It's good news that you can use the old top shaft as you can run a smaller spur for more gearing combos.

I don't think the diff will work in the nitro boxes. I have a 2spd that I'm playing around with and I just don't see how the diff won't interfere with the middle gear cluster. Would be nice to see this upgrade on the 2013 Savage from the factory. Here is my latest carnage pic.

ok maybe carnage isn't the right word
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Post by vandodger » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:27 pm

thanks for the info guys,  this is really going to help with my up coming project. my savage xl is still fairly mild compared to most of the trucks on here but I'll be posting a teaser for my up coming 1/5th scale build

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Post by carmaster65 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:15 am

Finally got the rest of my parts in and found time to assemble the transmission. There  were no big surprises along the way, just buy all the parts and follow the instructions.

I started with a stock flux tranny (with cups, no slipper) from ebay. I also previously purchased the lightweight hardened gears to build the bullet proof flux HP tranny. It looks to me that the 5SC tranny is the same type of hardened lightweight gears. Great, bulletproof and a center diff!

I covered building the diff in a previous post, this will pick up from there. Basically what I did was use the exploded view from Hpi's website and order all the part numbers. this was overkill but I like to add stock to my spare parts stash. One example is the pins, all the gears come with extra pins so the pack of pins I bought was not needed, not to mention the original pins from the tranny can be used. Same thing with the o rings, my diff kit came with all hardware so extra o rings were not needed. You can decide how much to buy, I will try and accurately detail the parts I used.

Diff parts list:
HPI 106273 Racing Idler Gear 30Tx1M 29.99 (38.98 shipped)
HPI 106277 Diff Shaft Set 5.99
HPI 87193 4 Bevel Gear Diff Conv Set 11.39
HPI 86827 Alloy Diff Case Savage X SS 11.39

Transmission parts list:
HPI 86972 Washer 6x15x0.2mm 3.69
HPI Z877 Washer 8x10x0.2mm 4.59
HPI Z689 Shim 6x8x0.2mm 2.79
HPI Z245 E Clip 5mm 2.79
HPI 107496 Bearing Mount Spacer Set 5.29
HPI 106269 Drive Gear 21Tx1M 15.79
HPI 106275 Idler Gear 41Tx1M 26.99
HPI 106271 Drive Gear 31Tx1M 30.10 (LHS)

Misc parts:
HPI B032 Ball Bearing10X16X5mm Savage 21
HPI B023 Ball Bearing 6X13mm

The bearings are miscellaneous because I used the Savage X SS alloy diff cup. That changes the the bearing from a B085 to B032  (which I had on hand). The Flux HP uses one B085 and B023 on the lower shaft which would transfer to the 5SC tranny but you will also need an additional B023 and B085. The 5SC doubles up on bearings on the diff.

Optional:
HPI 107460 Drive Shaft 6x80mm Super 5SC Flux 5.99

The 5SC drive shaft for the dual pad slipper is optional. I assembled my tranny with the stock flux shaft.

I added the prices so you can see what it cost me. Starting from scratch to assemble this entire transmission is a staggering 150.79 in parts + donor tranny 36.00 + shipping 23.59 = 210.38usd. If you have more patience you could probably shave it down a little.  Those gears sure add up, ebay didn't have much to offer. I've had good experiences with RCHobbies4life and their prices are always pretty good, they just didn't have some of the gears in stock. The kicker is I don't have a truck to put this in. I just sent out half the parts of my build to be anodized. I imagine it'll be a few weeks until I can test anything. Oh well. at least the tranny is out of the way. Here are some pictures.

Image

stock flux layout
Image

the 5sc layout. doesn't look like much huh?
Image

need to seal up the brake cam hole, probably just use silicone sealant.
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diff
Image

tranny
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Post by Ascender » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:47 pm

[quote="nas50gt";p="860208"]I'm just now building this Tranny and finished but I have a question.
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Post by BIRDMAN1622 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:02 pm

I have a question about the center diff in the savage.  How much performance (speed) was lost by going to this setup.  I stripped out my tranny today, and I am thinking about going to a center diff, but  I have the 5 sc Flux with a 44t Gen 3 slipper and 17t pinion and as previously mentioned is quite a bit slower than the my savage flux.

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Post by carmaster65 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:31 am

[quote="kpturbo";p="855199"]The biggest ratio difference is the spur/pinion 52/13 (4.00) on the 5SC while the savage has 44/20 (2.2) and also the transmission, 1.887 on the 5SC and 2.215 on the savage. Both cars have the same front and rear diff 3.222.
[/quote]

According to kpturbo the 5sc tranny is shorter gearing than the flux. Running the 44/17 is a shorter combo than stock flux which is 44/20. Right there that's two steps down in speed performance. According to the manual 43/25 is the highest they suggest, not sure if beyond that will fit. The reason I stayed with the old style shaft is so I am not limited in gearing with the 52t spur of the 5sc. Seems like you should just be able to gear up a little and get that speed back.

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Post by s2022 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:49 pm

[quote="BIRDMAN1622";p="860816"]I have a question about the center diff in the savage.
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[color=blue][i][url=http://www.savage-central.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=93732]Savage Flux XL; Mamba XL2; 1717; Custom CD; Mech Brakes[/url][/i][/color]

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Post by BIRDMAN1622 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:08 pm

Thanks I'm definately going to look into that...

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Post by carmaster65 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:38 am

The gear count that works in the Flux box and 5sc box are the same (4). The bigger gear on the top flux shaft does nothing, I think its a common gear for the nitro boxes. The diff in in the 5sc box is a bit heavier than just the gear and shaft in the bottom of the flux box. If all other gears are a similar weight it would be harder to spin that heavy diff. The difference might be noticeable, like taking the reverse module out of a tmaxx tranny. Hard to say since the gear ratios are different there is no way to compare the two. I think the performance benefit of having a center diff will outweigh a slight increase in rotational mass.

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Post by TheManWithNoName » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:38 pm

Hey,


ordered all the parts for the CD today and I would like to hear what's your conclusion on oil wt?

Where to start at,, maybe 200K / 300K  


Is 500K way too much?
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Post by tee-cozy » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:18 am

i have to say chaps im impressed  

ive just put my order in for all the parts got every thing here in the uk for
FORRRR SPPPAAARRRTTTAAAAAA!!!

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