Modify diff cups to accept 8mm bearing? .....DONE!

Questions about Hop Ups for the Savage.

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highxj
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Modify diff cups to accept 8mm bearing? .....DONE!

Post by highxj » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:12 pm

I'm pretty new to Savages....gotten a *censored* of an education here and thanks for that guys.

There seems to be a consensus that
Last edited by highxj on Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dragonbat13
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Post by dragonbat13 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:15 pm

there is not enough material to do it.  I believe there is a hardened steel over aluminum setup on the factory cup.  And when you turn it down you get into the aluminum.

If you have a lathe, there is a mod where you take a ring gear off of another kit, and cut it down to mate with a cut off cup.  Its like a sandwich.  With a ring gear on one side, the cut up cup with some through bolts, and a cut up ring gear on the other.

There was also a cen diff mod, but I dont see it around anymore.  I dont know what the deal was with that one.  But it was supposed to be pretty good.

If you wanna do something trick, make a cup.  think it cant be done?  Try making a cup that could allow a cut up aluminum stocker to be pressed in the middle.  If you took some round stock, cut the outer dimensions and them bored all the material out the middle, leaving a sleeve with the bearing mount on the side.  you could cut off the end of the stocker, cut the OD to a press fit into the custom cup, and then use through bolts on that.

That, my friend, would be the cats meow.
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highxj
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Post by highxj » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:02 pm

Hmm....don't remember any steel bearing area on the diff cup when I rebuilt them a couple weeks ago, looked all aluminum if I recall.  Maybe so......I might just order up a cup and see how it measures out anyway.

What does the Vorza cup look like, it's plastic right?  Same dimensions as a turned down aluminum cup would be at the bearing end?

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LLkoolskillet
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:43 pm

Here's the mod dragon is talking about with a steel ring.

http://www.savage-central.com/modules.p ... sc&start=0

The vorza diff is plastic with a steel instert for the bearing to slide onto. Amazing diff combo IMO.
[img]http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h358/LLkoolskillet2/skillet1.jpg[/img]

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nitronly
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Post by nitronly » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:18 am

[quote="dragonbat13";p="860673"]

There was also a cen diff mod, but I dont see it around anymore.

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Post by highxj » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:52 am

[quote="LLkoolskillet";p="860728"]Here's the mod dragon is talking about with a steel ring.

http://www.savage-central.com/modules.p ... sc&start=0

The vorza diff is plastic with a steel instert for the bearing to slide onto. Amazing diff combo IMO.[/quote]

Thanks for the link, I could whip one of those out pretty easily.  By the way is it "Skillet" or "Skil-lay", ha.

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nitronly
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Post by nitronly » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:00 pm

[quote="LLkoolskillet";p="860728"]Here's the mod dragon is talking about with a steel ring.

http://www.savage-central.com/modules.p ... sc&start=0

The vorza diff is plastic with a steel instert for the bearing to slide onto. Amazing diff combo IMO.[/quote]

That ends up looking just like the cen diff but with the hpi ring gear. Check out the cen diffs below. It's a shame you can't buy the cen ones anymore.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=cen+gene ... 80&bih=651

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LLkoolskillet
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Post by LLkoolskillet » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:22 pm

Skillet
[img]http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h358/LLkoolskillet2/skillet1.jpg[/img]

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xtremesavage
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Post by xtremesavage » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:07 pm

Image
Image
Image

Just another option,,if your up for some tinkering?

Its held up for me great.
[img]http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n403/xtremesavage/newsig.png[/img]
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nitronly
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Post by nitronly » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:17 pm

What is it? and it looks like that diff cup is cracked.

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Post by xtremesavage » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:29 pm

its cracked,,but it still shows the mod.

Its an HPI cup that fits together just like the old CEN diffs.

Its the same mod in the thread skillet posted,,,Read it,, if you havent? its a great mod and for me it was FREE.

http://www.savage-central.com/modules.p ... sc&start=0
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Post by dragonbat13 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:53 pm

I still think a chrome-moly sleeve around that aluminum would make it tougher.  Maybe find a piece of pipe that is close enough to allow the cup to be cut down to fit inside.  Then mill the outside of the steel pipe till it fit inside the ring gears.  It wouldnt take very much material around the cup to avoid that crack.
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Post by highxj » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:49 pm

Well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I had to tear my front diff apart today to replace a badly worn outdrive cup, so while I had it apart I set the diff cup in my lathe and turned down the bearing stub to accept the same 8x16mm bearing as used on the gear side.

As information, the entire cup is aluminum, no steel sleeve.  We will see if this is a 'good' modification or not.  If so, it will be a heck of a lot easier than going to Vorza cups, or other mods using reduced ring gears on a cut off cup.  It is literally a 10 minute job, including setup, on a lathe.

This is going back into the front of my XL running an LRP .32 engine.  As soon as I find a reason to tear down a rear diff, assuming this one hasn't shelled out yet, I'll be trying it on the rear of one of my rigs.

I'll post back here on how it works!

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nitronly
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Post by nitronly » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:20 am

Very nice. I'm going to have to do this mod if it holds. I hope it does.

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Post by bifftit » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:23 am

Very nice, wish i had mill resources!

maybe should have lft a bit of meat of the backside, you may not have had to shim the cup side as the bearing race would have butted up against it.
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Post by mothman » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:53 am

[quote="highxj";p="861229"]Well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I had to tear my front diff apart today to replace a badly worn outdrive cup, so while I had it apart I set the diff cup in my lathe and turned down the bearing stub to accept the same 8x16mm bearing as used on the gear side.

As information, the entire cup is aluminum, no steel sleeve.

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Post by highxj » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:46 am

[quote="mothman";p="861254"][quote="highxj";p="861229"]Well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I had to tear my front diff apart today to replace a badly worn outdrive cup, so while I had it apart I set the diff cup in my lathe and turned down the bearing stub to accept the same 8x16mm bearing as used on the gear side.

As information, the entire cup is aluminum, no steel sleeve.

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dragonbat13
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Post by dragonbat13 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:15 pm

I havnt seen anybody actually prove that it they did it either.  But I heard alot of people say they have heard of it or seen it fail.  I personally havent.  But alot of those who said it would fail were experienced savage owners.  

Let us know how it goes.

ON a side note, whos to say that someone couldnt make their own steel insert?  Take some bar stock and thread the end, drill out the cup and thread the hole. Then locktight or stake the stock in place, then machine it to the correct dimensions.  The stock would only tighten if anything because the cup is driven in the correct rotation.
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Post by mothman » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:33 pm

They are a few people on this forum have tried this method, just need to search for the right thread. Couple of local savage owners tried this as well. They all reported that the mod did not last as expected and the failure is costly and messy.

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Post by highxj » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:50 pm

[quote="mothman";p="861269"]They are a few people on this forum have tried this method, just need to search for the right thread. Couple of local savage owners tried this as well. They all reported that the mod did not last as expected and the failure is costly and messy.[/quote]

Ouch!  Well, wish me luck then.  As I said, I don't expect much of this method, but it's worth it to me to see for myself how it holds up.  I do have replacement parts on hand should I need them.  There are a lot of things that I look at and think, "That part doesn't look strong enough", and they work anyway.  I do wish some of these things, like the differentials, were a bit more 'over-engineered' to start with!  And I wish they used machined gears in the tranny instead of that pot metal crap..oh well.

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