SAVAGE Break In, Tuning, Build and General Tips

Tech tips for the Savage can be found here.

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SAVAGE Break In, Tuning, Build and General Tips

Post by HIRISK » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:38 am

Thanks must go to all the guys who have already posted Tech Tips and Guides on this forum as without those, I could not have done most of what you see below.

These tips are not a must for everyone and as peoples skill levels and sometimes more importantly patience levels vary, just take on board what ever you feel will benefit you most.

1) MAKE IT REALLY READY TO RUN BEFORE YOU EVEN RUN IT

The first thing I did when I took my Savage25 out of it's box was strip it almost completely down. This is not necessary for the SS as it comes out of the box already in bits.

This initial strip down of the RTR is a good idea as you really get to thoroughly check all the parts and correct anything that has come from the factory as a fault.

I bought a few things to add to the Savage right from the start just to make it run as well as I could. These are not major modifications, rather just add ons to make running the truck more enjoyable.

This included Hitech Servo's. I used the 645MG for steering and the 475HB for throttle/brake. I also installed a 6V 5 Cell Hump Pack and added a different on/off switch so that I could run an external charge lead which means that you don't have to remove the Hump Pack for charging.

When re-asembling your Savage, take the opportunity to loctite all metal to metal screws. I would suggest using a BLUE locktite as it is not as strong as the read, making dis-asembly at a later time a lot easier.

Here is my Savage25 in pieces:
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Image

Here are some of the parts waiting to go on:
Image


Once I had the engine removed I took the Roto Start and back plate off and sealed it with Oxygen Safe Silicon and also LOCTITED the 4 screws on the back plate and also on the Roto Start when re-assembling the back plate.

I also removed the carb and Silicon sealed the neck and then loctited the nut on the pinch clamp.

Remember you only need a very small bead of silicone because when refitting the parts the pressure will dispurse the silicone over a larger area.

I used Tamyia Thread Lock (Blue) and Oxygen Safe Silicon for these tasks.

Here is a shot of the engine removed from the Truck
Image


While the Truck was in pieces, I took the opportunity to do the bleeding my shocks mod http://www.savage-central.com/ftopic29.html as the stock HPI oil is not silicon and does not work anywhere near as well as good quality silicon shock oil.

I used Orion shock oil and went for 30wt front and 35wt rear. What weight you use is really is up to you and how you drive. There are many good topics within Savage Central relating to what weight shock oil suits what conditions, just do a search for them.

I also fitted a set of shock socks at this point as they really do a great job in keeping the shafts dirt free. This is not really a mandatory mod, it is just a personal touch you may want to add.

Here is a shot of the finished shocks
Image


I then stripped down the diffs in preperation for the Bullet Proof your Diffs mod http://www.savage-central.com/ftopic2200.html. It is a good idea to do this while your Truck is in bits.

Here are some shots of the diffs
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After this I proceeded to do the Throttle Rod Setup http://www.savage-central.com/ftopic2179.html which is a great idea as it will give much improved brakes and better control of the throttle and brake adjustments.

I used an OFNA Servo Horn and OFNA Linkages to complete this mod.

Here is a few shots of the Throttle Mod
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I then did the MP Servo Saver Setup http://www.savage-central.com/ftopic2361.html. This is a much better setup than the stock Servo Saver setup and I highly recommend it.

I used a Hitec Metal Servo Horn attached to a Hitec 645MG Servo.

I also replaced the factory linkage that runs between the Servo horn and the Bell Crank and made a custom length adjustable one using some OFNA Rod Ends and a small bolt with the head cut off to link the Rod Ends. This just gives a bit more adjustability.

The OFNA Monster Pirate Servo Saver was used and I fitted HPI Steering Ball Bearing as well. I also have used a GPM Alloy Steering Cross Member just to make things that little bit more rigid.

The steering is now AWESOME!!

Here is a shot of the parts I used to link the Servo to the Servo Saver (at the top of the pic is the standard rod which I replaced with a custom length adjustabel rod)
Image

Here is a shot of the Alloy GPM Tie Rod
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Here is a few shots of the setup finished
PLEASE NOTE: Being the dummy I am, I put the alloy GPM steering rod on facing the wrong way!! Doh!! Please look at the first picture showing the standard plastic rod facing the CORRECT WAY:
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I then added an OFNA fuel filter as this is just a nice precaution to take. I mounted this at the rear of the Truck as the extra fuel line helps keep the Truck running a bit longer in the event of a roll over.

Here are some shots of the Fuel Filter Setup
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If you plan on running a Fuel Tank Guard you may need to slighlt modify this as the tank on the S25 is different to that on the SS and S21 which most current guards are designed for.

You just need to drill a large hole in the back of the guard then file it clean. This just allows the rear pick up on the tank to clear the Tank Guard.

Some shots of the Tank Guard Mod
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Another good idea is to tape up all that unwanted Antenna wire. It can just get in the way when you are trying to access your receiver box and is best tucked away. I just bunched mine up and taped it then used a small amount of double sided tape to attach it to the receiver.

Here is a shot of the antenna wire
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Image


This completes a very comprehensive pre run build up that will ensure your Savagwe has the goods to bash all day every day!! You do not need to all of these mods, just choose the ones that suit your skill and needs the most.
Last edited by HIRISK on Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:50 am, edited 19 times in total.

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Post by HIRISK » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:39 am

2) AVOID RUNAWAYS

To avoid runaways I have installed a Venom Fail Safe and also a Throttle Return Spring. This way if I ever have a failure the Truck will not run off at full pace into a brick wall or what ever else jumps in front of it.

What you need to do is get a hold of a spring that is probably about 3 or 4mm in diameter and about 15 to 20mm long (but use what ever suits your application). It needs to have a little hook on each end. Losi actually makes a throttle return spring - Part#A-9409. (thanks Corrado)

Attach one end of the spring to the end of the slide linkage where your throttle rod is attached and then the other end can go to a few places depending on the length od your spring. You can try these....

* attach it to the base of the HSN and have it stretch around the base of the airfilter and over to the slide linkage.

* attach one end to the TVP chassis near the HSN and have it stretch around the the slide linkage.

* Or what ever else you come up with.

At the end of the day, as long as it pulls the carb shut when you are not on throttle, that is what is important.

Here is a shot of the Fail Safe
Image

Here is a shot of the TRS
Image
Last edited by HIRISK on Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:19 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by HIRISK » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:40 am

3) MONITOR YOUR TEMPS!!

You really should have some method of monitoring your temps. I chose to install a Venom Temp Monitor to keep an eye on things.

After receiving a great tip from Savage_25_Guy I have relocated my Temp Monitor to on top of the rear shock tower. This has a few advantages as you can remove it easily for cleaning by pulling the two pins out that hold the body post on and just slide it off with that and also it is MUCH easier to read in this location with the body on.

But after crushing it in a roll over, I decided under the body would be the safest place. If you have the stock Savage25 body, you will need to cut a hole in the side windown to view it, but other bodies with clear windows are OK.

Here is a shot of the new location
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On the rear body mount
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...and with the body on
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On the TVP
Image
Last edited by HIRISK on Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:25 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Post by HIRISK » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:40 am

4) FINISHED BUILDING AND READY TO BREAK IN!!

Now your Savage is all ready to Break in and should be looking hot!!

Here is a few shots of my baby:
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....with Pro Line F-150 body and RPM Wheels:
Image
Image
Last edited by HIRISK on Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:31 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Post by HIRISK » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:41 am

5) BREAK IN PROCEDURE

this is something that I have put together from my own experience with the S25. I have not had any problems starting the new engine, it actually started FIRST TIME and did not stall at all through the entire Break in process and it has run like a dream ever since break in. So I hope this helps some S25 newbies.

1) Check needle settings and ensure that the HSN is 4.5 turns outr from closed and then make sure the LSN is flush with the carb body.

2) Take the factory glow plug out and use a hotter plug. I used a Enya #4.

3) Fill your tank with fuel.

4) Put your Savage on a box or stand so the wheels can spin freely.

5) With your Radio gear turned OFF manually open the carb about a 1/4 of the way.

6) Get a regular everyday hairdryer and heat the block until it reaches about 140f to 150f. This will help the first start. This takes about 2 or 3 minutes.

7) Prime the motor by Inserting the Roto Start into the block and put your finger over the exhaust outlet. Press the Roto start button only VERY BREIFLY and watch the fuel in the fuel line. Once the fuel is about 1/2 an inch from reaching the carb - STOP, as this is enough.

8 ) Now you are ready to fire it up and Heat Cycle the engine. Be ready to adjust the carb by hand just incase it is open to much or not enough. Press the Roto start button until the motor fires up (this should only take a few seconds). Once the motor fires up remove the Roto Start and adjust the carb for a slightly high idle. (My SAV25 started first go using this method and did not stall at all through the entire process).

9) Once it is idling OK just let it sit there running for 3 minutes. Keep an eye on the temps and make sure they don't go to high.

10) After 3 minutes, shut the motor down by putting your finger over the exhaust. Once the motor stops use your finger to spin the flywheel and make sure the piston is not stuck at Top Dead Centre. Basically just make sure you can spin the fllywheel back and forward a little.

11) Let the motor completely cool down and then repeat steps 8, 9 and 10 4 more times.

12) Once you have completed Heat Cycling the motor you can then take it off the stand or box and get ready to take it for a little drive!! Fill your tank to the top in preperation. For the next 3 tanks DO NOT ADJUST THE HSN or LSN NEEDLES. You want it to still run really rich. Drive the car like this, avoiding prlonged use of full throttle for 3 tanks of fuel.

13) By this stage you will have done 5 heat cycles and driven through 3 full tanks of fuel. Now you are ready to start tunning the carb!! Firstly remove the Hot glow plug you put in for break in and install a cooler plug. I used an Enya #5. Over the next few tanks of fuel you can slowly (1 hour turns at most) start to lean out the HSN. You will slowly see the performance of the truck start to improve. Do not rush this process, you really want another 2 tanks of fuel to go through the truck while doing this.

14) Now you are ready to really make some power!! Firstly you need to tune the HSN and make sure that it has a nice blue trail of smoke from the exhaust at all times and keep the temps under 295f at max.

15) Now tune your LSN. This really will not need much, if any adjustment.

16) Lastly set your idle to a nice smooth idle.

That is it!! Your SAVAGE has been broken in and will start to loosen up more and more as you run more fuel through it. Just keep an eye on your temps and the smoke trail from your exhaust.
Last edited by HIRISK on Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by HIRISK » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:41 am

5) AFTER RUN

Just remember that when ever you finish driving your truck for the day always run the fuel out of the car completely.

If you still have half a tank or something, just tip the truck upside down with your fuel lid open to tip it out. If you only have a very little amount of fuel in the tank you can just run the motor (at ildle only!!) till it emptys.

Once the motor stalls from no fuel just plug your glow plug ignitor in and then crank the motor with the Roto start. It may fire up for a second or two, but just let it run out again. Do this a few times until you have completely run out of fuel.

This just helps avoid getting gunk build up in the motor and makes starting next time a lot easier.

If you will not be driving the truck for a while (4 days or more) you should then remove the air filter and glow plug then drop 4 or 5 drops of after run oil into each hole and then replace the filter and plug and give it a quick spin with the roto start.

I actually do this after every bash session.
Last edited by HIRISK on Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by -sorc1 » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:47 am

very nice, ..

but i would loosen the glow plug for first time startings

and never do this:

""Once the motor stalls from no fuel just plug your glow plug ignitor in and then crank the motor with the Roto start. It may fire up for a second or two, but just let it run out again. Do this a few times until you have completely run out of fuel. ""

this ruins ur engine !!

mfg

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Post by HIRISK » Wed Oct 15, 2003 7:55 am

-sorc1 wrote:very nice, ..

but i would loosen the glow plug for first time startings

and never do this:

""Once the motor stalls from no fuel just plug your glow plug ignitor in and then crank the motor with the Roto start. It may fire up for a second or two, but just let it run out again. Do this a few times until you have completely run out of fuel. ""

this ruins ur engine !!

mfg

-sorc1


Cool, Thanks for the advice.

If you use the Break in procedure lined out above, you should not have to lossen the glow plug at all. My motor cranked over with no effort what so ever and started fist go. Pre heating with a Hairdryer makes a big difference.

Also, with the after run procedure......How can this damage the engine?? As long as this is done AT IDLE there will be no overheating issues thus no scorching the inside of the motor.

It is very important to remove excess fuel from the motor before storage as over a period of time the fuel becomes gluggy and can clog the engine.

I could be wrong though, please do not think I am stating I know all so I would appreciate your feedback on this.

Thanks,
Shaun.
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Post by -sorc1 » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:00 am

hiho, ..

i let the fuel in the engine, .. and fill after run oil in glow plug and carb ( a few drops in each hole), .. spin the flywheel a few times, .. then glow plug back on, .. and u will have no probs !

yes ur

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Post by nickfudu » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:47 am

This is great.Ca you tell me the number of loctite you use?Thanx.

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Post by FlashRC » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:58 am

Woah Great Article.

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Post by BeastySavage » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:15 am

IF I may add, every time I want to go home for the day I always fire the engine a few times, nice and easy to get rid of fule inside the engine. I do it with all my cars. You just have to make sure you are not trying to crank it like you are ready to race, just a few cranks slowly. SO far so good. I then go ahead and add after run oil. My engines always start within the first crank or two. Leaving fuel in the engine is more harmful. ***Corrosion**

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Post by Savage_25_Guy » Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:15 am

Hi,
I noticed you mounted your temp gauge on the TVP liek you said you did.
I mounted my MIP temp gauge on the top of the rear shock tower,Then I cut a hole in the body so it sticks through the body but wont get crushed and I can check temp just by driveing by :D :lol:

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Post by HIRISK » Wed Oct 15, 2003 6:15 pm

nickfudu wrote:This is great.Ca you tell me the number of loctite you use?Thanx.
I used Tamyia Thread Lock which is blue in colour and available from most local hobby shops.


BeastySavage wrote:IF I may add, every time I want to go home for the day I always fire the engine a few times, nice and easy to get rid of fule inside the engine. I do it with all my cars. You just have to make sure you are not trying to crank it like you are ready to race, just a few cranks slowly. SO far so good. I then go ahead and add after run oil. My engines always start within the first crank or two. Leaving fuel in the engine is more harmful. ***Corrosion**
Exactly, good to see someone else uses this same method. The corrosion that old fuel left in your engine can cause is BAD. I have also run the fuel out of my motor after every run and then added after run oil and have never had any of my engines damaged from this procedure. I actually would like to think I am extending my engine life by doing this. Appart from all of the above, it also makes your engine a lot easier to start next time out.


Savage_25_Guy wrote:Hi,
I noticed you mounted your temp gauge on the TVP liek you said you did.
I mounted my MIP temp gauge on the top of the rear shock tower,Then I cut a hole in the body so it sticks through the body but wont get crushed and I can check temp just by driveing by.
Hummm, good idea!! I will have to have a look at this and may give it a shot. Thanks for the tip!!
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Post by CRSMP5 » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:12 pm

very nice.. you have now won the sticky rtr25 tips in this section also... in a few months after people quit posting to it we will move it to the exclusives section, but we will keep it here to get others feedback/opinions for now.. great job on it.

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Post by sfgascott » Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:25 pm

Nice job! This will help alot of people! 8)

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Post by HIRISK » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:26 pm

Thanks Guys!!
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Post by Savage_25_Guy » Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:32 pm

I just wanted to ad this is a great process but for you noobs you don't have to follow this.The breake in process is just fine the your book.I did not do alot of this I got a temp gauge and a motor savaers airfilter,lock tited the back plate and roto start,and did the breake in process that the book said to do and it runs great.But I am not saying that this is a bad process it sounds like a greta one.I just can't say I have used it. :)

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Post by justintoxicated » Thu Oct 16, 2003 2:21 pm

I don't suppose you could take a picture of your carb closing with the LSN @ factory settings...Mine does nto close all the way, I found anotehr person who has the same problem, at factory setting his carb will not close properly...

Im trying to retune my S25 (got it slightly used, just broken in) so I could not just go off the factory settings. This engine is WAY harder to tune than my 21BB...

Im just wondering if I need to buy a new Carb, I already had to replace the 1-way on the engine, and im starting to think i did not get such a great deal after all. Hopefully im jsut doing somethign stupid, but I did not have trouble helping my friend tune his nitro sport, or tuning my 21BB at all kinds of altitudes.

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Post by CRSMP5 » Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:13 pm


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