911 Clutch Bell Screw Broke Off In Crankshaft 911

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iCow
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Post by iCow » Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:17 pm

should i shim the old nut first then cut it? and do i shim behind the collet or between the flywheel and nut?
[url=http://www.iconicarts.com/savss/racer/]My Racer Project - Codename: Little Boy[/url]

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Post by ChiefPig » Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:22 pm

iCow wrote:ok so i cut the crank off just before the threads start and then shim between the flywheel and the clutch nut yes? or do i shim behind the collet? I've never had to shim before so i want to do this right.

use my dremmel cut wheel?

is there a risk of making the pilot too long? I don't what mesh issues after this...

I've ordered the OFNA shim kit and the nut/pilot end piece. Wow $13 bucks sure is better than $80, especially since I just got the WASP.

now would you recommend using a hex screw instead of a phillips from now on?

I know now that if it ever happens to me again (broken screw) all i have to do is get a new $8 nut/pilot.


Before you do any cutting, you might want to wait until you get the adapter so you can compare it with your existing SG nut. You can just put it beside the SG nut and see if the smooth part of the adapter is the same length as the SG nut and you can also check if you would have any problems with the amount of thread you will be left with when you use your dremel.

Just take it slowly from here to avoid any more problems. Good luck and make sure you post your results so people who have the same accident with their crank screws would know what to do.

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Post by CRSMP5 » Sun Nov 23, 2003 1:01 pm

the ofna shim kit comes wiht piolet shaft extensions... :D one of the nice things to it.. if the shaft is too short you use the supplied screws of proper length with the shaft extension that comes with it.. :D so still this is the best way out.. ive seen people break the shaft where they had to use the nut..

and with no flywheel on it just a nut on the threaded part.. no shims or anything.. just a when you take the nut off if you have any odd cut to it it will fix the threads.. kinda like when you shorten to long a bolt sometimes its hard to start a nut on it.. but if you have a nut on it.. then unscrew it it fixes it.. :wink:

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Post by Psychlone » Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:12 pm

My only concearn about the extended pilot shaft is that the threads are big and there aren't that many of them... If you could, you should try to see if you can leave part of the old SG extension on there to telescope inside of the extension for extra strength perhaps. :idea:
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Post by CRSMP5 » Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:43 pm

ive never seen one fail.. hows that for a answere... :P there are a few ?"rednecks" at the track i use that tend to use things like this when they break the crank.. rember the track is on the ohio river to WV... :lol:

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Post by tbill » Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:26 pm

icow, since i need to gut savage #1 this week, i'll post pic's of my mach.26 crank and adapter and pic's of the wasp for comparison. if you can wait untill tuesday, i can have something outlined for you so you feel better about hacking this crank.
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Post by iCow » Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:58 pm

I need an answer to the following:

where do i put the shims? between the nut and flywheel? behind the collet? No on has answered this yet.

Thanks.
[url=http://www.iconicarts.com/savss/racer/]My Racer Project - Codename: Little Boy[/url]

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Post by ChiefPig » Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:33 pm

If it is the envy, I think CRS suggested behind the collet. I wouldn't put it between the nut and the flywheel cause the bottom of the nut is tappered and would just bend/crush the shim. If you are shimming to move the clutchbell forward, then just put the shim after the nut before the BB.

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Post by iCow » Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:36 pm

i'm shimming to make sure the groove in the nut lines up with the springs for proper alignment and shoe pressure/grabbing.

CRSMP5???
[url=http://www.iconicarts.com/savss/racer/]My Racer Project - Codename: Little Boy[/url]

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Post by col_sanders » Mon Nov 24, 2003 3:59 pm

Hey iCow, if it isnt too late and your threads are all messed up, I have a suggestion. This is what I had to do when I had that prob in my new S-25. I used the smallest drill bit I could and drilled a hole through the middle of the screw. Then used a slightly larger one and then a larger one. By now, about 3/4 of the inside of the screw is missing. Then I used a bit about 2 sizes larger and kind of jammed it down into the hole and backed the old screw right out. I also loctite mine and it seemed to break free. Dont blame me if anything bad happens like you screw up the threads, but that is just how I did it. No problems since. I just try not to torque down the screw so much.
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Post by col_sanders » Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:02 pm

Also, on the last step, I forgot to mention that a regular bit will work, but if you could somehow find a reverse threaded bit, (I dont remember seeing one, but it was suggested to me by a contractor.) it would work better. Good luck on that man. Hope everything works out for you.
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Post by CRSMP5 » Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:38 pm

1 small shim behind the collet.. then the brass type of shim(s) between the nut and the flywheel to line up the nut to the springs on the shoes..

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Post by iCow » Mon Nov 24, 2003 9:33 pm

i tried drilling it out... screwed up the crank threads. thanks though.

thanks CRSMP5 >>> that's what I needed... waiting for parts now...
[url=http://www.iconicarts.com/savss/racer/]My Racer Project - Codename: Little Boy[/url]

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Post by tbill » Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:11 pm

ok, i took some pic's of everything, so here we go.......


1st, the mach .26 with a standard crank, you can see how long the threads are.

Image

mach .26 with cut crank,

Image

ended up with 6 1/2 'threads' left to put adapter on.

wasp .26 crank end

Image

wasp .26 and mach .26 side by side, note: the wasp has more area between the end of the threads and the crank case, but i think some shims will get you where you need to be.

Image

here is the collet, envy flywheel, ofna brass shim and adapter i am useing on the mach .26

Image



as i say, i think useing the adapter is a viable solution to the issue you have, and i think if need be, you could run it with 4-5 'threads' in the adapter. i had to use pliers to hold the flywheel to get the adapter nut off, and i didn't lock tite it on. i think with some good 'eye ball' measuring, you'll be ok.

hope this helps you out,

~tbill
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Post by iCow » Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:48 pm

wow thanks. Those pics help a lot. My parts should be here tomorrow and then after the tryptophan wears off, i'll attempt a surgery. I will document the various stages and post here for a possible future tech sticky! Thanks again. This will be interestig for sure.
[url=http://www.iconicarts.com/savss/racer/]My Racer Project - Codename: Little Boy[/url]

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Post by ChiefPig » Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:33 pm

tbill, do you have a picture of the two engines side by side with the ofna adapter on? That would be interesting to see if they end up the same total length.

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Post by tbill » Tue Nov 25, 2003 8:43 pm

no, i don't, but i guess i could quick like throw the stuff on the mach .26 and snap a pic. here i go....................


ok, i can't do a picture of it the way i want to, so i'll explain it :oops:

useing the wasp, i added one shim from the ofna shim kit between the crank case and the collet, then added the collet, then flywheel. now keep in mind, my wasp crank is still intact, so i had to 'eye ball' the adapters installed height [and for the life of me, i cannot find the top of the package that the adapter came in, i keep them all for p/n's if i need another one], but, with one additional shim between the flywheel and adapter the installed height is the same as the regular SG shaft installed height. [I.E. end of crank comes out the same].

also of note, due to my crappy filing system of parts/part numbers i use, i am not 100% sure if the adapter icow uses will be the same one that i have, but as stated before, i think a shim here and there will make it come out allright.
savage #1 lrp z28, savage #2 mach .26, savage #3 wasp .26, savage #4 mach .26, savage X, Hellfire, GS storm,
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Post by ChiefPig » Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:20 am

Maybe you can measure the length of the shaft right now after you cut it so people would have a guide of some sort. Just a suggestion. I know you said x number of threads, but I think it would be easier just to measure from the crankcase bearing.

I don't know why I'm asking all these questions since I have no use for the answers right now. Uh oh, did I just jinx myself??? :lol:

Is this the one that you used:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXABA2&P=7

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Post by CRSMP5 » Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:56 am

a actual mesurement will not work... the flywheel makes a variable, the clutch shoes used are also a variable.. you have to have the nut line up properly as for the grove in it for the springs to sit in properly.. no matter what you do.. make sure the shaft does not bottom out in the adapter.. use a small screw driver in the adapter to KNOW how deep it is and cut accordingly..

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Post by iCow » Wed Nov 26, 2003 11:24 am

that's the shaft I ordered. The end matches the SG crankshaft. good idea on the screwdriver measuring CRSMP5, I'll be sure to do that.

I think they meant to measure the length of the threaded portion after the cut. That should not be variable. I'm actually looking forward to this surgery.

I think it will be an interesting tech exclusive for sure... this should work for all SG crankshafts yes?
[url=http://www.iconicarts.com/savss/racer/]My Racer Project - Codename: Little Boy[/url]

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